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Hyperbowleeeeeeeeeee t1_ivc2uu9 wrote

Reply to comment by IntelligentCicada363 in Cambridge City Council to consider citywide ban on ‘turning on red’ by superfakesuperfake

There is no law that gives you general license to routinely break traffic rules on your perception of safety. Sorry bout that.

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jeffbyrnes t1_iwdk5gl wrote

And there’s nothing that says motorists are allowed to routinely break the law in myriad accepted ways, yet we know these things are fully normalized:

  • Going 5–10 MPH over the speed limit
  • Rolling through stop signs
  • Making right turns on red even when it is clearly posted to be illegal
  • Using a handheld device (e.g. phone) while driving
  • “Punish passing” a cyclist (i.e. passing closer than 3 feet)

Compared to the above, the traffic violations that a cyclist can commit aren’t even close in terms of potential and actual harm done.

So if anything, general license to routinely break traffic rules is not only common, but well accepted in the US.

Since my breaking some laws as a cyclist keeps me safe, while others breaking the law as a driver leads to people being hurt and killed, we need to recognize that these two kinds of law-breaking are not the same.

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Hyperbowleeeeeeeeeee t1_iwdl39y wrote

Please. There's no mob on the internet arguing that drivers are right to break traffic laws, or that tax cheats are right to lie on their returns, or that landlords are right to do construction without permits, etc., etc. There are many self-interested behaviors in society that are prevalent, but nobody is standing up claiming to be righteous in breaking the law for selfish purpose... Except one guy who lives in Florida and won't STFU.

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jeffbyrnes t1_iwdxcbd wrote

The difference is when I break the law while cycling, I’m increasing my safety. If it isn’t making me safer, I’m not doing it.

Until we fix the normalization of scofflaw driving (it’s not enforced many times b/c the enforcers consider those behaviors normal & act the same way, even when they’re working a shift doing enforcement).

I’ve had folks scream at me for obeying the law while cycling, punish pass me b/c I’m going to the speed limit (20 MPH) and am in front of them, and lots more antisocial, dangerous, & sometimes illegal behavior.

Pointing at scofflaw cyclists is a distraction & takes away from the need to solve the much more pressing and more dangerous illegal & antisocial behavior most drivers exhibit.

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Hyperbowleeeeeeeeeee t1_iwdz4b5 wrote

If you're blocking a car lane with your bicycle on a road, you're making a huge mistake. That's not safe or smart, and I'm not surprised you run into conflicts with drivers if you cycle around with that competitive attitude about space on the road. This conflict you're having with heavy moving objects makes very little sense.

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jeffbyrnes t1_iweqvf0 wrote

Are you aware that there’s no such thing as “blocking the road with your bicycle”? It’s been mentioned elsewhere in the comments, but if there’s no bike lane, cyclists are legally entitled to the entire main travel lane.

So your point here is invalid. Also, if I’m going 20 MPH, there shouldn’t be any conflicts, since I’m going the speed limit.

So I can’t be “blocking a car lane” since I’m traveling at the legal speed limit.

If a car is going faster than me, they’re breaking the law, which is the very thing you’re railing against, and doing so in a fashion that’s far more dangerous & deadlier than if I break the law on my bike.

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Hyperbowleeeeeeeeeee t1_iwew0jw wrote

I can't really debate you on the speed limits on particular roads on which you've experienced this, not knowing really anything other than what you claim. I just think what you're doing is wildly not-smart and your misdirection into this little vignette makes clear that safety is not what you've really optimized on when cycling. You're having a game of chicken with a two ton object, which seems unwise. I can see how this is causing you conflicts on the road and how you would get upset, but I fear you're just being quite immature about the whole thing.

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jeffbyrnes t1_iwg9ur2 wrote

You can absolutely speak to the speed in Cambridge: the citywide speed limit is 25, but most roads are 20 MPH.

The whole point of my actions is to be safer. If there’s no bike lane, I need to take the main lane to be safe from being doored by drivers getting out of parked cars, which is a far greater risk than moving traffic behind me.

I’m also legally entitled to the entire lane.

Drivers speeding is a near-constant. So again: it doesn’t matter if I take the lane and am going 20 MPH myself, nobody driving should be conflicting with me b/c they shouldn’t be going faster than me.

Said another way: being directly in front of a car is the safest place I can be if there’s no bike lane. I’m at my most visible directly in front of a driver. If I’m to the side? Less visible, and in the door zone for parked cars.

It’s not a game of chicken when we’re all going the same direction.

You’re misunderstanding my point, which is that I can obey every law to a T, and I will endure drivers flagrantly breaking laws in ways that society has decided are completely acceptable.

So if we’ve all decided road laws are optional as a society, why am I being held to a higher standard as a cyclist, even though my behavior is far less risky than a driver?

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jeffbyrnes t1_iwgcfeo wrote

Y’know, lemme ask this another way: would any of the behaviors I’ve described be acceptable if I were driving my car?

Would someone speeding around me, crossing the double yellow, b/c I was driving the speed limit, be acceptable, much less legal?

Would someone speeding at all, just because, be acceptable or legal?

Because that’s my issue here.

I obey far more moving vehicle laws than most drivers. I never speed (because I can’t! I can’t go that fast) and only rarely disobey a red light to cross when I deem it safer than waiting for cars to be allowed to move.

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Hyperbowleeeeeeeeeee t1_iwhet63 wrote

Hey, it's your life. I'm not a two ton object that needs to be convinced. I'm sometimes on a bike but not trying to get into a pissing contest with cars, as you seem to be. I yield and let them go. Why would you want to be an obstacle? Just sounds like you're making things unsafe for yourself to prove a point. That's not going to help much if you get hurt. Please stay safe. Your bike is an ancient technology with no safety features of any kind.

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jeffbyrnes t1_iwhugnf wrote

Your entire argument was “cyclists should obey the law”.

So why do drivers get a pass?

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Hyperbowleeeeeeeeeee t1_iwi2w78 wrote

Who's giving them a pass? But if you think you're some kind of bicycle vigilante Batman who we need to enforce the law through daily conflict while straddling your 19th century contraption, I can assure you that this scenario is not something the public demands. Just give it a rest, man.

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jeffbyrnes t1_iwixyb1 wrote

I mean, you’re giving them a pass.

You’ve been hot all over this set of comments, lambasting folks sharing that they break some laws in an attempt to be safer while cycling.

Saying “ugh scofflaw cyclists” while not even once acknowledging the reality of driver behavior as far worse is disingenuous.

Also, you keep referring to a bicycle as something antiquated & unsafe, which has its own negative connotations.

I’m hardly a vigilante; I ride a step-through & wear street clothes when I bike places.

Nobody, no matter how they get around, should be punish-passed or otherwise deal with abuse for going places, and yet this regularly happens to many. Hell, I’ve been punish-passed while driving a car.

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Hyperbowleeeeeeeeeee t1_iwj21vz wrote

OK, I think you're speaking a slightly different language here with terms and accusations I don't really understand -- or I don't understand how they're pertinent. I think maybe it's gotten too unhinged to continue onward with this conversation really. Good luck with your bicycles.

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