Submitted by edweirdmuybridge t3_yf5ncg in Futurology
Comments
Scalpaldr t1_iu1uwtf wrote
>"The 235-metre-long Shofu Maru will transport coal mainly from Australia, Indonesia, and North America as a dedicated vessel for Japan’s electric services company Tohoku Electric Power."
Well thank goodness the sail is there to reduce "GHG emissions by about 5-8%". What a strike for a greener future!
edweirdmuybridge OP t1_iu1v9ab wrote
Shofu Maru is a bulk carrier that has been retrofitted with a sail to capture wind energy. The sail creates thrust for the ship that would otherwise have to be generated by bunker fuel. The sail is retractable so that it can be lowered in unfavorable wind conditions or at port.
Outfitting bulk carriers with sails is an interesting concept because a lot of bulk cargo (eg iron ore, coal, grain, etc) is not particularly time sensitive. This will allow the ship to make a more circuitous route and take advantage of any favorable wind along its voyage.
lucifer-ase t1_iu1whxb wrote
whats wrong with taking small steps?
edweirdmuybridge OP t1_iu1wuru wrote
From my understanding, they chose coal because it has a relatively uniform density and less propensity to shift around. This is important during the development process because the sail totally changes the handling of the ship and they are trying to understand how to implement these safely. Hence coal. The optics aren’t perfect, but it is best to not let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
It is also worth noting that this ship is a retrofit and is being sailed by MOL, which is one of the largest shipping companies in the world. If the tests go well, we could see these deployed across much of their fleet so the 5-8% savings would be significant.
FuturologyBot t1_iu1xehf wrote
The following submission statement was provided by /u/edweirdmuybridge:
Shofu Maru is a bulk carrier that has been retrofitted with a sail to capture wind energy. The sail creates thrust for the ship that would otherwise have to be generated by bunker fuel. The sail is retractable so that it can be lowered in unfavorable wind conditions or at port.
Outfitting bulk carriers with sails is an interesting concept because a lot of bulk cargo (eg iron ore, coal, grain, etc) is not particularly time sensitive. This will allow the ship to make a more circuitous route and take advantage of any favorable wind along its voyage.
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/yf5ncg/worlds_1st_bulker_powered_by_wind_sails_into_port/iu1v9ab/
lucifer-ase t1_iu1y8pg wrote
wind-assisted would be a more honest description. According to the article this type of sail reduces fuel consumption by 5-8%. There are some fully wind powered designs under testing or in the design pase (e.g. Windbird by Wallenius Marine AB - https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/12/swedish-firm-wind-powered-cargo-ships)
themagicbong t1_iu1z4gd wrote
Plus I thought I read that the theoretical savings can be much higher than 5%-8%, I thought I had read somewhere that it could be as high as 15-20% fuel savings, though that would require perfect circumstances at the high end, and of course there are kinks to work out like you mention with the handling. Either way, 5-8% is pretty substantial.
starfyredragon t1_iu1zagt wrote
And they just had to use it to transport coal... why?
starfyredragon t1_iu1zg0k wrote
To be fair, a rigid sail capable of pulling a full bulk transport is a fairly new tech.
Schmancer t1_iu1zif2 wrote
In ground transport, the future is ultra-fast trains... A dramatically better version of the last thing is sometime the next big thing
edweirdmuybridge OP t1_iu1zs3g wrote
Likely because coal has a relatively uniform density and less propensity to shift around.
shave_your_teeth_pls t1_iu21gza wrote
This one can't pull the whole ship though. It'll reduce emissions by 5-8%, it's partially powered by wind, and not by much it seems.
fling_flang t1_iu24x01 wrote
Misleading title. These produce a small percentage of the ship's power.
ContemplatingFolly t1_iu24ytd wrote
To tag on...I remember hearing about this potential idea like 15 years ago, and this is all they have to show for it?
Northwindlowlander t1_iu25wjl wrote
Because it's a static, homogenous cargo probably, almost as good as a non-cargo ballast. Better for data collection on the effect of hte sails
Northwindlowlander t1_iu25ys3 wrote
Which means it's powered by the sails. If you read "fully powered" then that's on you.
[deleted] t1_iu2672z wrote
Northwindlowlander t1_iu26fyc wrote
It's a non trivial thing, it turns out. Most of the earlier schemes planned to use skysails (ie kites, basically), or something very like traditional sails, but they kept running into practicality issues. This solid sail approach is more complicated to implement but is supposed to be easier to operate and to not need much change in operator practices, training etc, and it's also supposed to be useful in more conditions.
Northwindlowlander t1_iu26on8 wrote
It's a big deal tbh. And it's also, importantly, a big deal that doesn't require a huge change in infrastruture and that can be retrofitted to existing ships. This is <exactly> the sort of technical improvement that we need to be chasing tbh.
tenderooskies t1_iu26rt1 wrote
this needs to happen everywhere - these things are mass polluters
[deleted] t1_iu2bdh6 wrote
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starfyredragon t1_iu2cr6y wrote
Fair, I guess
yiannistheman t1_iu2f3ph wrote
Bingo - some of the first cars were electric, which detractors actually use against EVs. As if technology is not allowed to mature over the course of a hundred years or so.
starfyredragon t1_iu2frdi wrote
... I wonder if a solid sail would work on a sailboat...
[deleted] t1_iu2i7r2 wrote
TyphoidMary234 t1_iu2j3vr wrote
If you read “misleading” as “incorrect” then that’s on you.
LLCoolDave82 t1_iu2km62 wrote
America's cup (F1 for sailboat racing) switched to solid sails 10 years ago or so. It's basically a wing.
ThisIsCody_ t1_iu2npml wrote
"Partially powered by wind sails." Eh, let's just remove a word, it'll be the same.
ContemplatingFolly t1_iu2p6y9 wrote
Yes, that's what I recall reading about so long ago. Thanks for the update.
If they can get to the 20% someone mentioned above, that will be something. Its just getting kinda late.
3serious t1_iu2p8rf wrote
nothing at all, but that post title is lying by omission
Trav3lingman t1_iu2q1e8 wrote
An engine and sailboat combo....was not aware that was a new thing. I mean the Great Western launched in 1838.
SignorJC t1_iu2t9t1 wrote
5% is an absolutely massive improvement.
SignorJC t1_iu2te1x wrote
They do generate a lot of pollution, but they are insanely efficient at transporting large amounts of cargo.
starfyredragon t1_iu2yfs1 wrote
Oh, interesting, I'll have to look that up
Sir_Osis_of_Liver t1_iu3gjep wrote
There are a number of Magnus effect (rotor or Flettner sail) ships out there like the bulk carrier M/V Afros and the tanker Maersk Pelican.
The Afros was seeing something like a 12-15% energy savings over similar ships.
Alovebird t1_iu3svvz wrote
This isn't a specially designed ship, it's been retrofitted to a existing vessel, being able to cut 5-8% emissions off fleets of existing vessel's would add up fast.
[deleted] t1_iu3x7ay wrote
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saucybelly t1_iu41ga5 wrote
I read that in Dr. Evil’s voice and saw the finger quotes , while No. 2 is about to clear his throat
skubaloob t1_iu45bkd wrote
Show us this, ‘the sail’
Nastypilot t1_iu4664v wrote
My God, sail-powered ships! I can't believe it! What will they think of next?! /s
edweirdmuybridge OP t1_iu4ek6f wrote
Like so many things on r/Futurology, this design looks great on a PowerPoint slide. But retrofitting existing ships allows us to improve fleet efficiency while simultaneously testing sail design and manufacturing processes so we can eventually make a fleet of fully wind powered ships. See Gall’s Law.
hoehater t1_iu4hrdy wrote
There are so many things wrong with that idea it’s not even funny, but the short answer is that there would be multiple points of loss in such a system making the entire arrangement incredibly inefficient compared to sails.
Keep in mind that sail used on these big ships aren’t simple pieces of cloth like ships used thousands of years ago, they’re air foils much like the wing of a plane. This means they can exert a LOY more force than you might think depending on wind direction and speed in relation to the ship. Fun fact: modern sail boats can achieve speeds 3-4 times that of the wind under the right conditions.
misimiki t1_iu4pag2 wrote
Because in this case it's coals from Newcastle.
LLCoolDave82 t1_iu5648w wrote
These boats are based on older AC designs. The newest class the sail is more flexible.
lucifer-ase t1_iu583t5 wrote
that we can agree on
BirdUp69 t1_iu5b0en wrote
Would be interesting to see a comparison across all wind conditions. And the installation/maintenance costs would also make for an interesting comparison
hoehater t1_iu5izhl wrote
Wind turbine are generally far less then 50% efficient at turning the kinetic energy of wind into mechanical energy, most are under 40%. The theoretical maximum is about 59%.
Losses from the transmission and generator are 10-20%.
Losses from power transmission and conditioning would be another 5-10%.
Losses at the electric motor would 3-5%.
The loss of most boat props is between 20-40%.
Then there’s the issue of forces on the ship caused by a wind turbine, by design would be working AGAINST the motion of the ship with anything except a tail wind.
So yeah, it would be totally useless.
starfyredragon t1_iu5ugi0 wrote
Interesting... so the ideal is in between hard and soft?
LLCoolDave82 t1_iu5y59a wrote
Honestly not sure. It could be cost. You need to reduce sail/wing size in stronger winds. Having three different sized hard wings is going to be more expensive then one mast with three different sized sails. AC is a little unique in that the last country to win gets to set the rules and some design for the next competition.
BirdUp69 t1_iu6oppk wrote
What about directly driving the prop, mechanically?
hoehater t1_iu79zme wrote
With what? A wind turbine? That would be like blowing into your own sail, just like using it to drive an electric motor.
Alovebird t1_iu86w9s wrote
15-20% are normally quoted for specially designed ships that are still on paper, this is a retrofit of an existing cargo ship and for that it's a pretty big amount
hucktard t1_iubo2ii wrote
“The introduction of the Wind Challenger is expected to reduce greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions by about 5% on a Japan-Australia voyage and by 8% on a Japan-North America West Coast voyage, compared to a conventional vessel of the same type” I wonder if that is even worth it. Like how much do the “sails” cost and how much fossil fuels do they take to produce?
jezra t1_iu1tbqn wrote
the future in ocean travel is this amazing new technology called a 'sail' that harnesses the power of the wind to move a boat through water!