kovid2020 t1_iqrc6gk wrote
Reply to comment by New-Work-139 in What do people on this sub think about the Maine Communist Party by [deleted]
How’s capitalism doing?
Real_antichrist t1_iqrcfui wrote
I don’t know but millions didn’t starved to death in the streets under it
Gayasskat t1_iqrd3vt wrote
Yes they have lmao just not in America
New-Work-139 t1_iqrde6p wrote
Where have millions of people starved under capitalism?
Gayasskat t1_iqretu0 wrote
The Irish famine, Indians during ww2 where all their food was exported out in order to feed the soldiers of the richer countries. Pretty much any third world country where people die of hunger are the determined losers of capitalism decided over years of colonialism and taking resources and people to bring riches to the more successful countries with more capital. The great depression and the dustbowl in America were caused entirely / greatly worsened by capitalism.
Communism has had horrible blights by horrible people but to suggest these things don't happen under capitalism is lying to yourself at best
Cranky_And_Old t1_iqrff7q wrote
The Irish famine was literally caused by a Monarchy and repeated laws discriminating against the Irish, set forth by the Monarchy, not by the economic system
Gayasskat t1_iqrfjxw wrote
What economic system was the monarchy using. Would it have made a difference if a parliament decided it instead of the monarchy
Cranky_And_Old t1_iqrfu46 wrote
No, it wouldn’t have made a difference if Parliament had decided it, because of high anti-Irish sentiment held by the English government in general at the time. This is a false equivalence
Gayasskat t1_iqrfy93 wrote
I think you're failing to see a bigger picture. And that's still 3 words out of everything I said
Kiddie_Kleen t1_iqrnya2 wrote
I mean we can say the same thing about people starving under communism? It’s not actually bc of communism is bc they were having a famine nothing to do with the economic system
New-Work-139 t1_iqrzmq4 wrote
That wasn’t capitalism though. The country was literally half owned by a company (the East India company). That is not capitalism, it was colonial corporatism. It’s a completely different system of political economics. There was little to no competition and all corporate enterprises were state funded and subsidized. Same thing in Ireland.
Kiddie_Kleen t1_iqsaplx wrote
Oh here we go with the “that’s not true capitalism it’s corporatism” that be like me saying “that’s not true communism that’s socialism” when talking about the USSR
New-Work-139 t1_iqsb8m3 wrote
I can understand how it might be misleading as the words sound similar, but corporatism is deeply anti-capitalist and on the whole just as much so as is socialism. So, I’m sorry, but your comparison is really a poor one and I’d encourage you to read up on the differences as you might find it changes your political persuasions.
Suspicious_Bus_4058 t1_iqrfuel wrote
How many starved under communism? I think Mao took down 20-50 million in 2 years.
Kiddie_Kleen t1_iqrnrtl wrote
How about the millions of people starving right now due to capitalism?
New-Work-139 t1_iqrchkw wrote
I mean… significantly better than communism ever did. People aren’t running through machine gun fire to escape capitalism so..
Kiddie_Kleen t1_iqrom6y wrote
Have you never heard of Pinochet 💀 the us backed coup in Chile where they gunned down and hung people from helicopter
biggestofbears t1_iqrdg7c wrote
I'm not pro capitalism at all... Pretty socialist. But there aren't any "Maine Capitalist Party" groups. This is the same vein.
Kiddie_Kleen t1_iqrop9b wrote
Democrats and republicans both support capitalism? They say so all the time
biggestofbears t1_iqrp8qk wrote
Sure, but they don't put capitalism in the name. Its just not a good PR move. Putting communism in the name just starts with a trigger word for a LOT of people.
I'm not saying Republicans or Democrats are the right answer, but if either party put "US Capitalism Party" a lot of people would not vote for them simply because of the name.
Kiddie_Kleen t1_iqrq8gq wrote
Yeah but the fun thing with that is if we called ourselves something like “the leftist coalition party” or “the people’s party” people would say we’re trying to trick people into liking communism so we’re in a damned if we do damned we don’t situation
biggestofbears t1_iqrs1hf wrote
Yeah you've got a solid point there. I think the biggest hurdle is breaking down people's perception of what communism is and separating the party from failed communist states.
Ask anyone semi-literate in the political world if communism works and they can point to a number of countries that tried it and failed, and that's a pretty big hurdle to get past.
I think this post was a start. I guess. But it didn't give anyone information about it, other than the name. Having a link. Or listing values. Or even saying "the Maine Communist Party as X candidate running for x seat would have been a bigger step in at least introducing it to people.
Kiddie_Kleen t1_iqrsm05 wrote
Yeah! I just wasn’t sure if link posting was against the subs rules
And we aren’t running any candidates this year but we’re planning on running some next year.
We, like most leftist, don’t want to give republicans a chance to win so we decided as a party to run on a off year to minimize the chance that a fascist gets a seat
[deleted] OP t1_iqrs129 wrote
Capitalism has brought more people out of poverty than any system in the world. It is flawed but by no means is communism the answer.
Kiddie_Kleen t1_iqrtyio wrote
Tell that to all the homeless people starving in Bangor! I’m sure they’d love for you to go tell them how capitalism will lift them out of poverty as me and my party teach them how to grow food and urban forage as well as buying land to grow food for them
[deleted] OP t1_iqruxw3 wrote
I never said capitalism was perfect and would lift everyone out of poverty. I said capitalism has lifted more people out of poverty than any system in the world. That is a true statement
Communism has worked 0% of the times it was implemented. Any wealth or success they had was usually a result of another system before communism, then communism sucked it dry and destroyed it.
No system is perfect but to date capitalism (with some social programs) is our best option.
Kiddie_Kleen t1_iqrzqki wrote
Then why is Cuba one of the highest nations in terms of literacy rate and they made there own COVID vaccine which was labeled “extremely effective” by outside sources not to mention other countries ask them for doctors such as South Africa
[deleted] OP t1_iqs2ax5 wrote
Do you see people from the u.s. crafting rafts and risking their lives to join such an amazing system?
Look at what people are escaping, and where they are escaping to. You are witnessing the will of the average citizen of those systems, not some watered down elevator pitch about why communism is so great.
Kiddie_Kleen t1_iqs5h6j wrote
Bro… there’s a literal sub called r/amerexit but sure people aren’t trying to get out of the US
[deleted] OP t1_iqs5ta9 wrote
They exiting and bringing all the wealth they made to a communist country?
Kiddie_Kleen t1_iqs729q wrote
And also there’s mega threads on that sub for people trying to leave the US who have no money so I mean some people do
Kiddie_Kleen t1_iqs6ehx wrote
Yeah buddy that’s usually how moving works yanno? You try to bring your possessions with you
[deleted] OP t1_iqs6lla wrote
your possessions? Don't you mean the states possessions? Those aren't yours anymore
Kiddie_Kleen t1_iqs79n9 wrote
That’s not how private property works lmao you’re just showing how ignorant you are to the whole thing, may I suggest reading?
[deleted] OP t1_iqs7g7y wrote
There is no private property in communism. Do you not know this?
Kiddie_Kleen t1_iqs7xxw wrote
Yeah as in you can’t own a business or anything that you can use to exploit other people, it has no bearing on personal property which would be things such as belongings
[deleted] OP t1_iqs8s78 wrote
Do you think you can own a home under communism?
Kiddie_Kleen t1_iqs8zm7 wrote
Mf you think people are packing their houses with them when they move?
[deleted] OP t1_iqs975c wrote
I don't think you have an understanding of wealth creation or personal property.
Kiddie_Kleen t1_iqs9cj6 wrote
Answer, right now do you own a house under capitalism? Since it so good you should have one right?
Kiddie_Kleen t1_iqs9gkx wrote
I mean I don’t own a house? My parent don’t own theirs? Mf sucking capitalism off when you have no capital lmao
Kiddie_Kleen t1_iqs93ne wrote
Do you own a house under capitalism?
Redleaves1313 t1_iqtccu5 wrote
Go watch Dr. Zhivago, a great movie, and also a little insight into early communism.
Kiddie_Kleen t1_iqs5lzg wrote
Also people aren’t really fleeing from Cuba anymore that was all the slave owners after Fidel took over
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