Got a ticket for running red light from Officer. But camera didnt go off??

Submitted by Aggressive-Yam5470 t3_zyptjs in Washington

I went through a traffic light that was one of those light turns yellow, but if I try and stop, it would almost be dangerous to slam on the breaks. So I went through it, part yellow, part red. And of course that was an officer at the intersection and pulls me over but gave me a ticket. I have not had any violations in a long time and I just kinda took the ticket.

But I am now remembering that the camera never went off, and there for sure is a camera there.

Does this mean that technically I didnt run it the light as to trigger the camera and thus his judgement may not be as pin-point as a camera/software.

Should I contest?

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Pristine_Read_7476 t1_j27lpv6 wrote

In Washington a driver may enter an intersection on a solid yellow light and it is of no significance if the light turns red before the vehicle exits the intersection. RCW 46.61.055. If you choose to challenge the infraction your likely to prevail on these facts.

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muose t1_j27odcm wrote

Thank you, yeah it doesn’t matter if it turns red while you’re in the intersection, as long as it was yellow at the time you entered the intersection. Case closed you should not have gotten a ticket.

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C0git0 t1_j294nwe wrote

I was taught in drivers ed that when making left hand turns in a busy intersection you’re supposed to pull all the way into the intersection and wait for the yellow/red to stop traffic in the other direction to execute your turn. This wouldn’t be legal if the above law wasn’t valid.

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Pristine_Read_7476 t1_j2a9ylh wrote

So long as the light is green or yellow when you enter the intersection you are correct.

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Aggressive-Yam5470 OP t1_j2ct6jc wrote

thanks. Im going to just pay the fine but thought Id try and get a lil conversation going and Ive learned some things

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Designer_Hotel_5210 t1_j29dqrl wrote

Sorry that's not how I understand it. As I understand it if you are in the intersection and the light turns red that is ticketable, since you are not clear of the intersection.

An officer once told me yellow means stop if able and being in the intersection is ticketable since you have 3 seconds on the yellow.

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Pristine_Read_7476 t1_j29mqab wrote

You are not alone and in many places you would be correct. Road rules can vary in small but significant ways from State to State and people naturally just follow what they were taught/told although the rule where they now live is different. In both Oregon and California you would be correct and I would get a ticket. Here is nice breakdown of the issue that Puget Sound Public Safety put out a few years ago:

YELLOW LIGHT: What does a steady yellow light mean in a traffic control signal in Washington? The law (RCW 46.61.055) says that a driver facing a steady yellow light is hereby warned that the green light is being terminated or that the red light will immediately follow which is when traffic shall not enter the intersection. You can enter the intersection when the light is Yellow but you cannot enter the intersection after the light turns red.

Washington, like 37 other states with “permissive yellow” rules, drivers can legally enter an intersection during the entire yellow interval, and a violation occurs if a driver enters the intersection after the onset of red. In the other states that have a “restrictive yellow” rule, drivers can neither enter nor be in the intersection on a red, and a violation occurs if a driver has not cleared the intersection after the onset of red.

How long a yellow light remains steady is depended upon the speed limit of the road. In a yellow light study done in Seattle the average light was 3.5 seconds. The Federal Highway Administration recommends the following yellow light times:

25 MPH - - 3.0 Seconds 30 MPH - - 3.5 Seconds

35 MPH - - 4.0 Seconds 40 MPH - - 4.5 Seconds

45 MPH - - 5.0 Seconds 50 MPH - - 5.5 Seconds

55 MPH - - 6.0 Seconds

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MaintainThePeace t1_j27ce5d wrote

The camera not going off probably doesn't help you, the cameras are not perfect and falsely trigger or fail to trigger all the time. Which is why the they are required to be reviewed before spending you a ticket. On the contrary, it probably would have been better for you if it did go off and you didn't run the red.

But always talk to a traffic lawyer anyways, having a clean record or at least not having something on your record recently is still probably your best defense.

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banme5lol t1_j27g06o wrote

Who cares about the camera? The cop and the cameras in his car saw it. Go slower next time and you wouldn’t need to run a yellow.

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TVDinner360 t1_j279x1y wrote

Traffic signals are timed so that if you’re going the speed limit you will have enough time to either stop before the signal turns red or clear the intersection on the yellow. Either you were speeding or you ran the red. Both show poor judgment. I’d pay the fine you earned and exercise better judgment in the future.

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OtterAnarchist t1_j27bmiq wrote

they may be designed that way but they are far from perfect and road conditions can and do effect stopping times, your best bet is to take it to court and contest the ticket on the grounds that you felt it would be unsafe to come to a stop at that point due to road/traffic conditions

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MaintainThePeace t1_j28fhgk wrote

>you felt it would be unsafe to come to a stop at that point due to road/traffic conditions

Don't admit fault for some other traffic violation, such as "driving to fast for conditions", to try and get out of the one you were cited for. That just asking for additional citation.

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pala4833 t1_j29kahi wrote

Every traffic signal?

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TVDinner360 t1_j2a0fr8 wrote

If they’re functioning properly, yes.

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pala4833 t1_j2a0snq wrote

Every single signal in the state? How does that work? You're making shit up.

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TVDinner360 t1_j2a6g2t wrote

Lol I’m not. This is a thing that traffic engineers do. They do have set algorithms and software to help, but they legit program traffic signal timing based on the posted speed limits, among many other factors.

It’s totally a thing. Traffic engineers make decent money. Maybe you’d like to join the profession? There’s a huge need for more engineers, and it’s very interesting work. Plus these are usually jobs with good health insurance and retirement benefits. Come aboard!

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Aggressive-Yam5470 OP t1_j2csvbl wrote

Thanks and I agree with this. I am a software engineer and I figured that both the lights are set in such a way that for the speed limit at that particular cross street, the light and its timing algorithm are set so that if I was going the speed limit, i would have enough time. But, factors such as it was raining, dark, and the timing may be good on paper but for me to slam on the breaks sometimes that can be just as dangerous.

Also, wouldnt the camera also have similiar if not more sensitive software/sensors that had i entered when it was red, it would have snapped a pic? meh.. ill just pay it, I was just trying to get some conversations and basically its what I thought.

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pala4833 t1_j2a6w5n wrote

I have many years experience working in city planning and transportation planning. I know it's a thing. What I also know is that not every signal series is timed. And certainly the three stoplights in my town aren't. We don't even know which light the OP is talking about. You know you're being hyperbolic.

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TVDinner360 t1_j2aa3k5 wrote

I’m not talking about coordinating signals, just strictly the timing of yellows & reds. If you’re really as knowledgeable about transportation planning as you say, then you would know those are standardized and take into account the posted speed limit. I really don’t understand why you’re so deadset on fighting this point, but by all means, keep shouting into the void.

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Aggressive-Yam5470 OP t1_j2cti2p wrote

Of the things Ive learned from asking this question is that people like to argue for the sake of arguing. Im sure each signal state machine is set as a function of the speed limit as input. then it just knows how long to stay yellow and when to switch to red. Most likely with a buffer to take into account various conditions.

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zer04ll t1_j27ply8 wrote

Always contest

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