HD6xx sounds different from Laptop 3.5 and E10k despite getting enough power.

Submitted by BrutalFeather t3_10o7vyy in headphones

I know both choices are probably not the best tool comparison. I got the E10k as a budget amp/dac and have a Asus FX 505GT laptop. Both provides enough volume at 30% sound (60% on low gain on E10k).

Laptop port makes the 6xx darker and the E10k makes it brighter. While darker makes it more fun, the brighter brings out more detail and I cannot decide which is better. So I tried to EQ to harmann or oratory1990 EQ but I dont know which driver to apply the EQ because both sounds different and the EQ settings will change the audio accordingly.

Is the E10k adding brightness or is my laptop adding darkness to the headphone? Can somebody who uses multiple amps (including E10k) share some insights? I was under the impression that an amp/dac should not change the sound significantly. Yet the changes I am hearing are significant.

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The_Incredible_Rook t1_j6d0i3w wrote

It could be that your laptop has some audio changing setting on somewhere

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BrutalFeather OP t1_j6d1euw wrote

If you are talking about the enhance audio options on windows or the bass boost. Then I have them turned off. Are there other changing setting I might be unaware of?

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Toronto-Will t1_j6eqlg9 wrote

Laptops often come installed with other audio bloatware from the manufacturer. Could be a realtek app, could have some other ridiculous name, like MSI laptops come "nahimic" software. It'd be something that runs on startup and sits in your system tray.

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Gamergtx_260 t1_j6dp1tw wrote

Everything literally anything in the chain (dac,amp, usb cleaners, cables, etc) can alter sound. If it sounds good for you then it’s an upgrade or a downgrade/snake oil if it isn’t. Even if you raise volume it sounds better on the same source in blind test.

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BrutalFeather OP t1_j6drz9z wrote

Would there be an upgrade in terms of resolution with the JDS atom? All other differences can be solved by EQ imo.

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Gamergtx_260 t1_j6dsbi3 wrote

Jds atom is an amp. It simply amplifies the signal. It’s quite neutral so it won’t alter the sound. If you want a correct reproduction of music then look for a nice dac.

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No-Context5479 t1_j6d1y0c wrote

Basically, you're not listening at the same SPL... that's what is mostly causing that. louder perceived SPL leads to more 'details' since it's louder

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BrutalFeather OP t1_j6d6shn wrote

I thought so too. Buy no, the laptop is louder than my E10k on low gain. There's more details on the E10k because the percussion does not overpower the strings and vice versa as most details tend to be on treble are since I listen to music with strings a lot.

Im just confused as to which one is the real sound so I can experiment with Harman EQ and the oratory1990 presets.

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ConsciousNoise5690 t1_j6dmmfa wrote

> the laptop is louder than my E10k on low gain.

If it is louder, you will hear more bass and more treble ( Google Fletcher Munson). A louder bass will mask the midrange.

Another might be a difference in output impedance. This will affect the damping. If the PC has a higher impedance, you get a less controlled bass. However, as the HD6xx is probably 300 Ohm, I wonder if the impact will be that big.

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BrutalFeather OP t1_j6dpfaa wrote

I do hear more bass from the laptop than the E10k so I dont know which one is the actual sound of the headphone. It also experiences the same more bass on my smartphone although with less resolution. Could it be that the E10k are the ones thats bright? Or is the laptop emphasizing the bass.

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Exciting-Mine-4300 t1_j6dk9qo wrote

People here will always be in denial that 300ohms can be driven from a dongle or any laptop and sound "good". For me what makes the Sennheiser 600 series of headphones special is when it's connected to a powerful source and especially to a tube amp, makes them sound so analog, warm and realistic timbre wise.

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BrutalFeather OP t1_j6dmi1q wrote

The 6xx are my first good headphones. While I do love them, I feel like the I'm not using them to the fullest potential with the E10k though I might also be wrong seeing a lot of mixed opinions in this sub reddit.

Is it worth upgrading to the JDS atom? Also coming back to the post, do you possibly know the reason why the two sounds different and which one is possibly the real sound of the headphone?

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Exciting-Mine-4300 t1_j6dnj24 wrote

Yeah I feel you! When I began in the hobby back in 2016 I had the HD598 and I used them with an old iPod Touch, while it did sound good, when I finally took the risk of buying a Dragonfly Red DAC/AMP the difference in sound quality was immediately noticeable. I'm not saying it's going to sounds like a totally different headphone but, it will make it come alive for sure. So yeah I think the JDS atom should indeed make a significant difference in musical enjoyment, the laptop is definitely not giving you the full potential.

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BrutalFeather OP t1_j6dowli wrote

Im using the E10k to drive my 6xx and the thing thats confusing me is that while both the laptop and the E10k are capable of reaching volumes that will blow my eardrums, they sound different (E10k is treble focused meaning I hear more details in strings and the laptop is more bass focused and I hear more power in percussion). Ideally I would want something in the middle while also adding more resolution (since the current discrepancy seems solvable by EQ).

Lots of comments in this subreddit state that if I am getting enough volume, there's no need to upgrade the amp and that amp does not change sound, yet the laptop and E10k is completely different to the point I dont know which is the real sound of the headphone. Hence, the dilemma of whether I should get the JDS atom since $100 is also a lot for someone quite new to the hobby.

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Exciting-Mine-4300 t1_j6eab41 wrote

I have tried the E10K and I think with the 6XX it did sound anemic/bright. Compared to the iFi Nano I had back then, the Nano had better bass, mids and a more controlled yet detailed treble than the E10K. Since then I have upgraded to a iFi iDSD signature for portable use and the Hifiman EF400 for desktop use and while they do have their own sound signature, they both do have a very similar overall sonic presentation to the iFi Nano I had back then. So yeah basically I think upgrading to something in the $150-$250 range definitely be an improvement and should give you the proper sound out of the headphones in all frequencies.

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loki993 t1_j6es13r wrote

There are a lot of people here that spend a lot of time looking at measurements and not a lot of time listening to stuff.

I have an e10k, I have a magni3+ with a modi multibit, I used to have an original jds element. I also have 6xxs. I've ran them out of all of these and even have run them straight out of the computer. They have sounded different in all of them.

Anyone that says all dacs and amps sound the same haven't listened to very many amps or dacs or are the lucky few out there, something like 20 or 30 percent of people, that honestly really can't hear a difference.

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headphonehabit t1_j6fviym wrote

I know I might get killed here, but I don't care. Amps/dacs sound different. There I said, it. Some people say that an apple dongle is all anyone will ever need, but I disagree. This is especially true with 300ohm Sennhesiers.

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o0genesis0o t1_j6gpu24 wrote

>I was under the impression that an amp/dac should not change the sound significantly. Yet the changes I am hearing are significant.

Oh they do sound different, sometimes drastically. I used to repeat after other people that "all of them sound the same", but by chance, I have access to quite a bit more to listen and A/B tests to review and now I have to take back the "they all sound the same" statement.

The thing is we are dealing with imperfect analog devices. Moreover, some manufacturers intentionally make the sound different. For example, some Shanling devices, such as the M6 Ultra (my review), are deliberately tuned for a thicker low-end, which happens to intensify the sense of depth in the soundstage. Some Fiio devices such as KA3 are brighter in the treble, which can trigger the "wall of sound" illusion sometimes. Recently I reviewed a weird dongle from a company called ACMEE, and that one has noticeably more upper midrange that the soundstage overshoots, placing the vocals right at the back of my head.

One may say "not the same volume", "louder is better". Sure. But then, when I deliberately push the volume of one device louder and it still cannot reveals details that the other one can at a lower volume, then one has to admit that something is going.

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Edit: one more point: some gaming laptop has very poor on-board DAC/amp. That can be the cause of the problem as well.

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BrutalFeather OP t1_j6h6icd wrote

Do you think the jds atom would be a significant upgrade from the E10k in terms of resolution? Also what does wall of sound illusion mean? Couldnt find it on google.

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o0genesis0o t1_j6h71id wrote

Wall of sound is the term I and some reviewers use to describe a flat and wide soundstage, like everything is on a flat surface without much sense of distance and layering. I personally dislike it, but then I know some who actively seeks that, so YMMV.

I haven’t heard the Atom so I can’t comment. I mostly review IEMs so I generally don’t pay much attention to desktop gear. A Fiio K7 is more than enough (though, again, a fellow IEM reviewer insists me to upgrade to K9).

In my experience, just grab a proper desktop setup (the one with external power supply rather than USB-C from laptop) from a reliable brand like Fiio, Schiit, Topping, etc., and you are done. Some people want to spend many thousands on these. Not me. An all in one like K7 or the Schiit stack is enough for me.

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hurtyewh t1_j6h08ic wrote

The E10K is likely closer to how it should be technically and laptops can do whatever to the sound. A decent solid state amp and dac should sound pretty similar to each other. Like my iBasso DC05, an Apple dongle, 789 and L70 all sound essentially the same with just different noise floors and power outputs.

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ku1185 t1_j6dt8p1 wrote

A lot of people will say dacs and amps sound the same. Some of us think they sound different. I personally thought the E10k was a little bright and grainy. It was one of the first dac/amps I tried.

Also gave up on the idea of a "correct" sound. I've tried several amps that measured similarly, but sounded quite different to my ears. Just find something to your preferences. If you like the sound out of your laptop, just use that.

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BrutalFeather OP t1_j6duloa wrote

Thanks for the comment. Its a bit difficult to explore when testing options are limited. So the E10 were indeed bright to you too. TBH I like the brightness more than the darkness but it looks solvable through EQ.

Its just a concern of if I will get more resolution upgrading the E10k. I will be fine with EQing for the treble-bass. Did you notice more clarity or detail upgrading from the E10k?

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ku1185 t1_j6e3huy wrote

I guess so. Most other budget stuff I've tried was significantly less grainy and harsh, but thought more details came through in most cases.

If you're happy with it, use it. If you want something better, be prepared to spend money for it. If you want something significantly better, be prepared to spend a lot more money for it.

I'd suggest buying used and sell it if you don't like it. I also use any new gear for at least a few weeks, if not a couple of months, before deciding whether I like it or not.

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