Submitted by Rear-gunner t3_zvifh3 in history
Comments
BimbleKitty t1_j1pfc3r wrote
I thought they were happy to use them as they kept vermin down, especially important in farming communities
Rear-gunner OP t1_j1pisty wrote
As a former cat owner, I can tell you that cats, contrary to popular belief, are not much good at killing rats.
avoere t1_j1po9ha wrote
Your cat was probably a spoilt indoor cat, not a barn cat.
Though barn cat's generally don't pick a fight with adult rats, they will eat their young.
joalheagney t1_j1pp6ml wrote
My childhood cat (a little calico) used to hunt adult rabbits and snakes. According to my mum, you'd see this rabbit or snake corpse coming up the road with a cat tail just visible behind it. "Look what I caught."
NZNzven t1_j1rfdnc wrote
Experience vs Qualifications
eveban t1_j1r6x53 wrote
We have a barn cat who has definitely helped our field rat & mouse issues. He was a feral cat my son brought home a couple years ago. I've tried to convince him house living is nice but he wants no part of it (I brought him in during the awful cold we just had and he screamed his displeasure for 2 days straight).
My only complaint is when he leaves the corpses of his kills on my porch and the dog finds them before I do. Nothing like seeing your dog toss a dead rat around like a favorite toy. So gross. But we haven't had any signs of rats and fewer mice in the house since he's been around so I'll deal with the dead bodies I guess.
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Pompen534 t1_j1pltro wrote
Do you really believe that your pet cat and a cat that lived in some village 600 or more years ago behave the same?
tchotchony t1_j1podnc wrote
If treated the same, yes. Cats haven't changed all that much. And they survive well enough on their own as strays that they quickly become a pest when not controlled.
Pompen534 t1_j1polmh wrote
True, but almost no pets back then were treated as we treat them now. I doubt most people could afford pets whose only purpose was to bring comfort.
tchotchony t1_j1pq97h wrote
A substantial amount of people were farmers/lived close to nature though. It's just... pet food wasn't a thing, in the best case you might toss some meat leftovers (though I suppose those would mostly go to the dogs and pigs). Cats roamed and are pretty capable of keeping themselves fed when they're healthy. I doubt it's as much a question of people keeping cats than cats staying around sources of easy food (vermin)/warmth/scritches behind their ears. You didn't need to be able to afford cats, they can take care of themselves.
Same as with your pet cat. If it's a freeroam, it'll hunt anyway regardless if you feed it or not. My previous cat was semi-freeroam (couldn't get out the connected backyards) and at one point he took the neighbours' rabbits home. Over a 3 meter/10 foot wall. Mind you, he was well-fed and lacked for nothing. My current is indoors only, she attacks anything on 4 legs on sight. Including the neighbour's German Shepherd. Hunting instinct is big in cats and never went out of them.
Rear-gunner OP t1_j1q3b15 wrote
When you look at the rat catchers of the modern era, they prefer dogs to cats for rat hunting.
NewestAlt1234 t1_j1rkly2 wrote
Well yeah DUH, wtf! Obviously it's easier for a modern ratcatcher to use dogs, especially terriers
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RobertMcCheese t1_j1qeick wrote
If you have rats, dogs are way better at controlling them. Your hulking barn tom will do ok with rats, but rats will mess up a regular cat but good.
Most of your rats were going to be in your fields, not inside your dwelling. Regardless, ratting is the whole point in breeding dogs like a Jack Russell, a dachshund and the like.
Royally-Forked-Up t1_j1r8aee wrote
As a former cat owner, I can tell you they certainly can be. My spoiled indoor cat was a murderous bastard who regularly snuck out. He brought home full grown crows, rats, squirrels and a whole goat of mice and smaller birds. He was never trained, he just hunted on instinct and he was faster than greased lightning so we couldnāt keep him inside. His mom was similar, although she stuck to smaller critters, and his son is scared of spiders.
BimbleKitty t1_j1pmrvh wrote
It depends, my former cats and friends cats varied from playing with mice to taking on badgers and foxes. The panther owned by my ex bf parents would tackle anything on his territory. My old ginger was big enough to take on rats and even stole next doors canary and brought it into my kitchen to slaughter in the night.
I said vermin..rats, mice, insects, snakes..
[deleted] t1_j1pvkh8 wrote
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No_Motor_7666 t1_j1r30pr wrote
During the black death they were killed in great numbers which was unfortunate as they kept the rodent population in check. Rodents carried the nefarious fleas that caused the plague. Inadvertently they were eliminating a protective component in their households when killing their cst friends.
Rear-gunner OP t1_j1pbc13 wrote
It appears it is a myth that medieval society saw cats linked to paganism and witchcraft.
not-now-silentsinger t1_j1prdrg wrote
That's not exactly what the article says, though- it tempers the idea that cats in the Middle Ages were only seen as evil, by giving examples where cats were also much loved as pets, but it doesn't claim that it is a myth altogether.
Rear-gunner OP t1_j1q22a7 wrote
It's a valid point. Unfortunately, I do not see the original study this article quotes
Sadoksad t1_j1pm3lo wrote
It actually was in some cultures. Black cats especially. And then you had other cultures where they worshipped. Depends really.
not-now-silentsinger t1_j1psj7s wrote
Here is another interesting article that explores the love/hate relationship with cats in the Middle Ages: https://www.worldhistory.org/article/1387/cats-in-the-middle-ages/ (Warning: contains graphic descriptions of people torturing cats)
[deleted] t1_j1pcyf5 wrote
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series_hybrid t1_j1qqcil wrote
It's established in the old testament that good angels and bad angels can "appear" to be other shapes. I think there has been some confirmation bias in the demonizing of cats back then.
Who can be seen to skulk around on dark nights, when all "good people" are tightly indoors? Black cats.
Being dark helps them to better hide from those who would kill them, and hunting mice and rats at night is something that helps an oppressed animal survive. Once they see people hating them and trying to kill them (or even just throwing rocks), they don't need to know why. They'd hide out in the day, and hunt at night.
Sure_Garbage_2119 t1_j1qdi54 wrote
It variates, but it's a kind of animal companion, a spiritual being. it got associated with witchcraft, but not necessarily demons, a concept way newer than witches, mages, sorcerers, magic etc
E-Scooter-Hoodlum t1_j1sghox wrote
Waldensian-Christians in the medieval period were accused by propaganda of commiting sodomy with a demon in the shape of a cat and that they had to commit the Osculum infame by kissing the ass of said cat-demon.
It was also common in medieval Germany to belief that the german word for heretic "Ketzer" had it's origin in the german word for cat "Katze" and was refering to people who did similar things with cats as the Waldensians were accused of. In truth the word "Ketzer" goes back to an italien word for the followers of Catharism, but that wasn't widely known at the time and so many allegories were made of heretics and cats.
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Herissony_DSCH5 t1_j1pv1i5 wrote
Medievalist with PhD here. I have seen no evidence of "mass state sponsored killing of cats." For one thing, "the state" as we would see it in the 21st century simply did not exist in the Middle Ages in most countries, there was no organized body that could have carried out such measures, and royal administrations (the closest one could get to "the state") had other priorities.
This myth is a sloppy modern explanation.
czarkhan1984 t1_j1pn09w wrote
Like only Europe experienced the Black Death ? Itās just another myth to portray medieval times as dark age
[deleted] t1_j1pmcrj wrote
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Firefox159 t1_j1pdgak wrote
What do you mean medieval times ? Joking aside: I can imagine people easily vilifying cats when put in contrast with dogs.
Sadoksad t1_j1pm5ng wrote
As a certified cat fan, I don't relate. Dogs are cute though.
ffreshcakes t1_j1rado0 wrote
important to remember that people in the medieval era had varying opinions just like you two have now. some probably didnāt like cats, some probably preferred them. in literature Iām sure youāll find examples of both opinions. also u/no_motor_7666 mentioned they were killed in great numbers during the plague, clearly out of desperation and something that isnāt entirely unexpected without modern medical knowledge. while cats may have been seen as demons by some, and by more in times of despair, this is not indicative of a standardized negative attitude towards cats.
Sadoksad t1_j1rbn0r wrote
>mentioned they were killed in great numbers during the plague
Pretty sure some one else refuted that by saying it was a myth?
ffreshcakes t1_j1re240 wrote
no there are certainly examples of cat purges, for assorted reasons but primarily because as I said they just didnāt have the knowledge and needed to blame things. ālarge numbersā is relative, most are scattered examples with less than 100 cats killed. I know that is a large number of cats but Iām talking relative to the total cat population.
[deleted] t1_j2e3gq0 wrote
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No_Motor_7666 t1_j21atr0 wrote
Woah I adored my fatherās impressively intelligent cat. What negative opinion.
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Firefox159 t1_j23aj5n wrote
I am a cat person - I just ment I can imagine :)
Larkson9999 t1_j1q21o9 wrote
Pretty confident that everything was seen as a demon by someone in medieval times.