In Titanic (1997), Suppose Rose stopped seeing Jack like her mother told her to. Would Cal have been abusive to her?

Submitted by zsiple1998 t3_11bdjno in movies

I just watched it for the first time in a while, and before Jack and Rose see each other post-forbiddance, Cal is a little controlling (ie ordering her dinner), but he only gets violent (throwing the table, slapping her, using a gun) when Jack and Rose see each other.

This made me wonder, while Cal wouldn't have truly loved Cal, would he have abused her had Rose listened to her mother and never saw Jack again?

Note: I'm NOT saying I ship Cal and Rose! But would Cal have been better to Rose had she listened to her mother?

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CTFX84 t1_j9xbxk0 wrote

Yes I think Cal would still have been abusive to her. Rose was a free spirit, and Cal wanted a quiet demure woman by his side.

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DYTTIGAF t1_j9xf1he wrote

It wasn't Cal she was running from but her whole class structure (which Cal represented as her future).

Jack was used to push Rose's boundaries. He gave her a chance to explore the world outside her strict social obligations (that were crushing her dreams).

Rose wasn't in love with Jack. Rose was in love with the idea that Jack represented to her.

The ideas of freedom and self determination. It was the understanding that her life was her own. Rose was not going to sacrifice her soul for appearances and the expectations of her mother. She had no choice. Escape or die.

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rood_sandstorm t1_j9y03nt wrote

Oh so she was only using Jack too? So if the titanic didn’t sink, Jack would have been heart broken. Wow. It’s probably best he died then.

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misterfriend t1_j9xe7l0 wrote

Would Rose marry another man if Jack didn't instruct her to? I swear to god, whoever that poor bastard was, my heart goes on for him. He took care of her for decades until his dying day, raised her family, etc. The whole while, Rose was getting off to the thought of her dead two-day boyfriend and sitting on jewellery worth a fortune.

His spirit is like: "Hey, where am I in your fantasies, Rose? Rose? Hey, what about me? Am I also waiting at the stairs with Jack?"

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Life-Stable-978 t1_jaa2moc wrote

You can love more than one person... Maybe her husband also had a first love that influenced his life in a big way.

Could she have done anything with the necklace? Didn't an insurance company pay for it?

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misterfriend t1_jaa7zj1 wrote

If these speculations you offer are valid, they should be included in the film's narrative. Otherwise, Rose is depicted as someone who views others as pure utility. This includes the exploration crew who helicoptered her in to help them find the necklace. Fat neckbeard is portrayed to be a selfish pig, but he's actually right to be upset with her. Paxton's character on the other hand looks like a romantic fool.

Her granddaughter is standing right there while Rose talks about a man other than her grandfather. I don't know about you, but if my grandmother started talking about some mystery boyfriend from long before I was born, I'd feel really weird about her.

I love/am attracted to all kinds of people for various reasons at various levels of intensity, but my spouse is my #1 heart and my hero. I can reminisce all I want about past loves, but the person who put years of time, affection, patience and memories into me absolutely must be the love of my life. Nothing could supersede that on a human timeline.

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Life-Stable-978 t1_jaahkrh wrote

I just think the idea that there must be one great love of your life a bit unrealistic, and pointless. Like you don't rank your children, why significant others? And I wouldn't mind if any of my grandparents spoke to me of a first love, I find it hard to understand why I would care (especially in context without Jack, Rose would never have met her granddaughter's grandfather). Even if you personally don't have any grandparents with more than one spouse or kids with other people, it's quite common

Rose isn't depicted as only caring about what she can get from others, what do you mean by that?

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misterfriend t1_jaak4wt wrote

I presume perhaps it's our age difference and life experience that causes us to think differently, if you don't see what I mean. I could try to see it your way, but I just don't. I've had this discussion with others, and they haven't said anything substantial to sway me, based on what the film presents. "Maybe" or "if that was me" don't absolve the given evidence when I judge Rose.

I'm not interested in sitting through the film to provide anyone with supporting points, either, so one can take or leave my assertions. She's all about her love of Jack, and everyone else can hang (including Jack, if we say there's room on that door for two). If that makes her a good person, so be it. But I find that to be a little reptilian.

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Comprehensive-Fun47 t1_j9zc1xj wrote

Yes, I think it’s pretty obvious he would.

She refused to conform to what he wanted her to be. He would have hit her the next time she disobeyed him or did something he didn’t like.

There is a deleted scene that was cut from the scene where he smashes the table aside. The maid comes in and tries to help Rose clean it up. Rose is so beside herself, she basically collapses on the ground. It is classic abuser/abusee behavior.

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[deleted] t1_j9xd001 wrote

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zsiple1998 OP t1_j9xeaza wrote

True, thanks.

Every time I watch it, I wish Rose would shove him off the boat. Him killing himself isn't satisfying enough.

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[deleted] t1_j9xd0tp wrote

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zsiple1998 OP t1_j9xed9f wrote

When does she deny him sex?

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Tayreads608 t1_j9xh5sb wrote

That’s the subtext in both the scene where he first shows her the diamond and in the scene where he flips the table along with after Cal finding out he calls her a “slut” and his (jacks) “whore”.

Edit: it’s why the “draw me like one of your French girls” and the sex scenes pay off as well as they do. Her asking Jack to draw her and him doing so is explicitly tied to eroticism and ownership of herself. An ownership that she denied Cal throughout the film.

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SueSudio t1_j9yyuvw wrote

Yes. He was chasing her down in an attempt to shoot hr in the back. You don't escalate to that from "loving husband" unless the inclination was already there.

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shesavillain t1_ja1f5zz wrote

She probably would’ve killed herself before marrying him like she tried to do before Jack talked her down or would’ve ran away.

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Thomas-R-Bingus t1_j9xhj3e wrote

Cal slapped her around a bit, yeah. But by 1910s standards, this would make him a gentleman, as most men would just outright punch women in the face back then

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SueSudio t1_j9yynff wrote

A gentleman chasing her down to shoot her in the back? That's a hot take.

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KoldFaya t1_j9xbrc1 wrote

Ship it ! No pun intended ;)

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