Submitted by Novaham t3_11ei2q1 in personalfinance
I'm leaving my job because the hours are insane and the scheduling simply isn't fair.
Now HR wants me to pay back all $20k of it even though I never even received it.
Has anyone ever negotiated this? I have no idea what to do as I don't have enough money to pay back $20k in 30 days.
IRS should give you the $7k on your next tax return. Ask an accountant how to do this.
Your employer is obligated to the full $20k back. There is a small chance your employer will sue you for the money so you could just "ghost them" and chance it
By the way, READ THE CONTRACT from when you were hired and they paid your bonus.
Exactly what does it say about repayment if you don't stay a certain period of time? Is it supposed to be prorated?
Is there anything that your employer did where they are in breach of the contract?
You say the hours are insane. Is there anything they are doing that is potentially illegal?
(You could potentially go to a lawyer if they are doing something illegal.)
I did. It says I need to pay back $20k minus applicable taxes. I took that to mean, I pay back only what I received.
I have to pay back the entirety of the bonus I received if I leave within 2 years in 30 days.
Just working until midnight, expected to come in at 6am the next day. Long 6-9 day stretches with one day off in between. Every other weeken, while those in elite positions can just leave when they want, and never work a single weekend. My job requires a doctorate degree and I had better hours working at McDonalds. Not illegal, but definitely not conducive to a decent quality of life.
There was no breach in contract that I'm aware of.
I'm just fucked. I will probably have to take out a personal loan.
The ship has probably sailed at this point, but does it say you have to pay back the bonus if they fire you? If not, then potentially you could have just refused to work the excess hours. (They could fire you ... but you wouldn't be leaving.)
And you said that the contract says "$20k minus applicable taxes". That sounds exactly like you need to pay back only what you received. What is their explanation for why they are saying otherwise? Show HR the language of the contract and say "no".
Were these the hours you signed up for? A lawyer might be worth talking to if you signed up for a 9-5 but then forced into your insane hours.
Be sure THAT wasn’t a breach in their own contract.
Unfortunately it wasn't anywhere in writing. My manager verbally said I would only need to work maybe 1 or 2 overnight shifts a year, but I have worked numerous, then expected to come in for evening shift. This has resulted in migraines and vomiting, which I wasn't even allowed to leave for. I knew it would be every other weekend, but didn't know how awful the scheduling would be.
Its not really illegal, just inconsiderate.
Was there anything in the contract saying the bonus would need to be paid back if you left before X date?
If someone receives a bonus when they are hired, it's pretty much a certainty that there is a stipulation that you have to pay it back if you don't stay for six months or a year or whatever.
That's not OP's question.
OP is saying that they only received part of the bonus, but the company wants them to pay it back as though they had received the whole thing.
They want the full amount back because you’ll get the $7k back when you do your taxes, just sucks that you have to wait. If you only paid back the $13k you’d end up getting back the $7k when you do taxes, so the company is never made whole. Maybe they accept a payment plan?
I would start by informing HR that you didn't actually receive the $20K. Show them the deposit record from your bank.
I can't fathom somewhere with an actual HR department (as opposed to just a cheap owner trying to make a buck off of someone) expecting somebody to pay back a bonus they did not receive.
Edit: I didn't realize that you meant the extra was for taxes - I thought you meant they had literally only paid you part of the bonus (as though it was paid in installments or something). You can potentially have them withhold no taxes on your final paycheck, but that obviously isn't going to make up for $7000.
You're really just going to have to deal with it until you get it back on your taxes. You can potentially have little/nothing withheld from taxes on your new job to try to make up the difference.
OP got the money minus taxes, spent it before the payback date in the contract and now doesn't have the money.
I never had the money to spend. I only received $13k. I do have that. I don't have $20k though.
Yes you do have $20k. You have the $13k they gave you and they have contributed $7k into your withholding account at the IRS. Depending on the dates you may get the $7k back this year or it may be next year when you file taxes. To get it back sooner lower your withholding from your future paychecks. Why? You already have $7k on deposit with the IRS for this year's taxes.
Sorry, I meant I don't have $20k on hand to pay back in 30 days. I don't think I will be able to come up with $20k in 30 days.
I think the point they are making is that the bonus was taxed - so they didn't receive $20k, but the after tax amount. However, HR doesn't care, they want the pre-tax amount, and you correct the taxes to show you didn't actually receive that income. Refunding the taxes paid on your behalf.
Okay, that makes sense then.
You basically have to take care of it when you file your taxes.
Read the contract. Does it say "terminate employment" or "quits". For most sign on bonuses you only lose it if you don't fulfill your end of the contract. If they fire you, you don't owe them anything. Tell HR you're feeling burnt out and need some time for family... In writing. Then be less of a perfect employee. If you're doing a PhD level job, mental health is a major part of productivity. You and the company have a vested interest in achieving an acceptable work / life balance. They obviously want you to stay. Be honest with yourself and find out what you can do to make it work.
You got a 20k retention bonus. Your employer sent 7k of that to the IRS and you claimed it on your tax return.
Now you pay back your employer 20k and then you get the 7k back from the IRS when you file next years taxes. You might be able to amend your taxes to get this earlier. This is a relatively simple situation, but go to a tax preparer.
Like others are saying, you can also ghost your employer or try and negotiate down the payback.
Where does he get the extra 7k TODAY to pay back his employer before he can reclaim it via tax time next year?
That’s the shit part of retention bonuses.
You either have to quit in the same year you get it so the employer can get the 7k back from the irs and you just pay back the 13k or you have to stay until it expires.
If you don’t like a job, the best thing to do is take the retention bonus and put it in a high yield savings account until the contract expires.
84740296169 t1_jae504w wrote
Basically you give them the full amount back and you correct it on your taxes. That’s typically how these sign on bonus paybacks work.