Father getting divorced

Submitted by waynekop t3_11dwgzh in personalfinance

My father, age 57, is getting divorced from my step-mom after 20-25years. State is SD. He's basically broke, no retirement, no job, nothing. She's financially more intelligent than him with over 500k in retirement/ investment (closer to 1 million, but im being conservative). She got gifted a house before they married (20 years ago), but it's under her and my step-gma (her moms) name, not my dads. Step mom took out second mortgage to afford a lake cabin (2nd mortgage), but again under both her and stepmother name. Step Gma is worth well over a mill(x2)... what value would my dad receive during this divorce? Kicker, they agreed to foster 2 under 5yo kids 2 years ago. We have a meeting with a lawyer on Thursday, but I'm looking for educated questions to ask so the laywer so I don't miss anything. I appreciate responses.

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foo_trician t1_jab7p06 wrote

if she is smart financially, she has probably had a lawyer ensure he is entitled to not much.

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waynekop OP t1_jab83p8 wrote

She is not a dumb women. Honestly she's outsmarted my dad my entire life. How can I help protect him?

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waynekop OP t1_jab7rhv wrote

What and how could she hide it?

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theoriginalharbinger t1_jab8fch wrote

Prenup, sheltering assets with her family, using pre nuptial assets to make the higher risk investments that grow in value, etc.

When there are 7 figures at stake, usually the attorneys get a chunk.

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waynekop OP t1_jab8t23 wrote

No pre-nup at at all, but she used a gifted property (before marriage) as collateral for the 2nd property

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determinwhat t1_jacljki wrote

I've read other threads like this. Did he invest in the property at all, say with money he earned or doing projects/improvements with his labor?

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waynekop OP t1_jacnlov wrote

He's been paying $300 a month the entire time with the total beiny roughly 80k over the years. He does all the home repairs and improvement work around the house using his own money. They built an additional garage addition on the house using both their money and a lot of his labor

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lakehop t1_jadg738 wrote

He should be sure to tell his lawyer all of this. Any work he did and money he paid on both houses. Write it down in advance and show the document to the lawyer so you don’t take too much time explaining it, lawyers time is very expensive. Whatever the lawyer says, do.

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hijinks t1_jab8pv2 wrote

that's why he'll need a lawyer to help find anything hidden.

My friend is a divorce lawyer in NY and he always says people try to hide finances from others which is a giant mistake. The one thing judges hate more then anything in a divorce is someone trying to hide money.

I'd at least pay for a consultation to see about the laws in your state dealing with divorce. For example the 25y they were together the retirement money might be considered joint property to split.

If he has concrete examples of what is his and what isn't then maybe they can split things without spending a lot of money on lawyers and battling.

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waynekop OP t1_jab9728 wrote

This is great, thank you. This is why I've told him the 1st step is a laywer. But I just want ammo to go into the meeting with the laywer with so I'm not shooting into the dark

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waynekop OP t1_jabbnwx wrote

He has a record of "paying rent" via checks to my grandma in law ($400/mo over 25 yrs), but how does he prove the thousands he's spent on home renovation/repairs/maitance and remodels over the years?

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Motor-Farm6610 t1_jabpy7n wrote

How did he bankroll renovations with no job? He's probably not entitled to get that back, but states differ some.

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waynekop OP t1_jacfqvr wrote

He's had a job throughout the marriage. He's been unemployed since covid basically

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determinwhat t1_jacnvm4 wrote

I hate reading this, it reminds me of things I saw friends go through in the aftermath of 2008. It's good he's got his son backing him up. Watch out for his lifestyle, drinking not going out, doctors prescribing painkillers.

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shadow_chance t1_jab9mor wrote

I doubt anyone can given much specific advice. Divorce is part state law, part what the exes agree to, and part what a judge agrees to.

It doesn't have to be exactly 50/50 but I would almost guarantee he has some claim to the house they live in and retirement accounts.

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waynekop OP t1_jab9zfl wrote

Thank you, I agree he has some (italic font) claim to property/assets, but what questions or road blocks do you think he faces?

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No_Expression_411 t1_jadiqe0 wrote

If you put asterisks (*) on either side of a word it shows up in italics

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umrdyldo t1_jacijqb wrote

If there’s no prenup, it’s most likely entitled to half of everything.

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AgathaMarple t1_jabag9w wrote

It's good your seeing an attorney. Your step-mom has considerable assets, so don't be surprised if the attorney doesn't recommend an accountant look over the assets. A lot will depend on the divorce laws in your state, but the attorney will know all that. I'd just lay out everything you said here to the attorney. He/she will know what questions to aks. They were married for a long time, so she may be required to provide spousal support, depending on the state law, of course.

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waynekop OP t1_jabanb7 wrote

This has been the most professional response, I appreciate you. Thank you

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attongirdeaux t1_jabsj1z wrote

South Dakota is an equitable distribution state, and assets acquired both during and prior to the marriage can be subject to division following divorce. Some factors considered by South Dakota courts in a property division case include non-monetary contributions and economic misconduct

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micha8st t1_jab8cge wrote

Divorces are state-specific. SD is not a community property state.

A google search found me this article: https://www.divorcenet.com/resources/divorce/marital-property-division/south-dakota-divorce-dividing-

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waynekop OP t1_jab8o5i wrote

This is wonderful, thank you! She was gifted a house before marriage, but just used this house as collateral for a lake house this year.. does this affect the original gift? Or?

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Icy-Regular1112 t1_jae9x5s wrote

Often taking out a loan against premarital property to make a large purchase of an item that is used equally during the marriage (eg like a lake house they used together) means that the second mortgage amount and the lake house is considered a marital asset. Let’s say for another example that step grandma bought a car and gave it to your stepmom but that your dad regularly drove it, was insured as an operator of the vehicle, and hey maybe even changed the oil a time or two. Strong case to be made that car is a joint asset and the lake house should be the same. Their primary residence is less likely to be considered joint because it entirely predates the marriage and has the step grandmother in the picture. Retirement accounts likely should be split based on what I’ve seen too. Lawyer is needed to untangle all of this and look out for your dad’s best interests, but I will add if an equitable split is offered by the soon to be ex it is rarely worth fighting for 10% more if it drags out with legal fees, so my goal is to get close rather than perfect if that’s even on the table.

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micha8st t1_jabbvoh wrote

I guess it depends upon what the Judge decides is equitable.

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ThrowawayTink2 t1_jabji1d wrote

So it may be different in your state, but I owned my house before my ex and I got together. I paid every payment from my own account, and we never co-mingled money in it.

My lawyer (correctly) advised me that he was not entitled to anything I owned before we got together, but if we had mixed money he would have been entitled to half the increased equity.

However, since the house was purchased before they got together and your stepmom only owns half, best case scenario, at least in my state, would be the increased value of 1/2 of the house, and only if they co-mingled money. Since Dad paid rent to Stepgrandma, I don't think that is the case. It establishes a tenant/landlord relationship.

If there is a second mortgage on the house, it is most likely in both stepmom and stepgrandmas name. Dad isn't entitled to any of Step Gma's wealth.

Definitely meet with a lawyer, find out Dads rights. If you don't like that lawyer, interview another. I think SMom probably had her ducks in a row before the split. Good luck.

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_joeBone_ t1_jabft5l wrote

Do they hate each other? the best plan is an amicable solution.

I mean, after 25 years, this nest egg was built together. Just because she had the banger job doesn't mean he contributed any less....

half

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ThrowawayTink2 t1_jabipga wrote

>I mean, after 25 years, this nest egg was built together. Just because she had the banger job doesn't mean he contributed any less....

Pffft. In the 20+ years my ex and I were together, he worked low value under the table jobs or no job at all. "We" did not build any nest egg 'together'. -I- worked my arse off 60-80 hours a week to keep heat, food and the house from going into foreclosure. He in no way deserved half, and he didn't get it either.

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_joeBone_ t1_jabjq0w wrote

that's why I asked if they hated each other.

why did you wait 20+ years for him to get his shit together? This situation can work if both people are rowing in the same direction. just sayin

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ThrowawayTink2 t1_jabk679 wrote

He promised me babies "when we had more money in the bank' 'better health insurance' 'fixed up the house to be safe for a baby' and a half dozen other valid sounding excuses. Once I realized he was trying to run my clock out, I thought I was 'too old' to start over. (I wasn't). Then the crash of 08 hit. Took me another 10 years to climb out of that financially. I was okay being the breadwinner. The dealbreaker was when I was given a chance to adopt a newborn and he blocked the homestudy. Done. Took me two more years but I was done the day he refused the homestudy. I walked away and never looked back.

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waynekop OP t1_jabg7sx wrote

They hate either, yes. Her worst fear is giving any money to him... I agree with you! 💯, but her thought process does not

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ThrowawayTink2 t1_jabih7d wrote

I was in a similar position. I purchased my house before we got together. I made sure I paid every single payment directly from my own money and account so he would have no claim on it.

This veers into relationship territory vs personal finance, but is part of the reason they are splitting after fostering + 20 years together because she wanted kids and he didn't? Because that is 1000% why I left mine after the same time frame. I paid a very expensive lawyer a lot of money to make sure I got out with all of my assets. (I did have a heart though. I rented him a place for a year and paid all the utilities so he had somewhere to go. After that it was on him to get a job and figure life out)

Anyhoo. The point is. Stepmom will likely pay an expensive lawyer to preserve as much of her wealth as she can. Dad is going to NEED a good lawyer if he hopes to come out of this in decent shape. She seems to have laid a good groundwork to protect her assets.

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AskAgainLater_Petal t1_jac2ss3 wrote

Does your step mom have children from a prior marriage?

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waynekop OP t1_jacfvqr wrote

No, she's never had children. That's the reason she decided to foster at the age of 50

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peeweemom t1_jacp88m wrote

Has he been working? If she is able to prove that he hasn’t been saving like she has even though he should have been able to she might have a case.

Not the same state but had a friend recently divorce and he saved a ton in his 401K and his wife had a good paying job but just chose to spend a lot more than he did. Not sure how it worked out with the lawyers… but I know she didn’t get it… at least not even close to half of it.

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ct-yankee t1_jaex974 wrote

This all comes down to state law. Given the duration of the marriage I suspect he has full claim to half of what are "marital assets". He needs to have an attorney and not represent himself. Especially given that she has the means to hire one as well.

Even if they decide to mediate, he should still seek legal advice and talk with an attorney.

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