CPEBachIsDead t1_iqqi8na wrote on October 2, 2022 at 11:01 AM

Reply to comment by j4trail in Utopia”: meaning ‘no place’; from Greek: οὐ (not’) and τόπος (‘place’) by Sphaerocypraea

In modern Greek, yes. It may surprise you to know that they weren’t speaking modern Greek in the premodern era.

Mr_G_Dizzle t1_iqqja8k wrote on October 2, 2022 at 11:14 AM

Care to tell us how they would pronounce it in the premodern era?

Remon_Kewl t1_iqqw2vj wrote on October 2, 2022 at 1:23 PM

Premodern era, like what /u/j4trail said. Ancient era, probably like /u/WaddlingTriforce said. There aren't only ancient greek or modern greek eras. There are a couple of stages in between.

Provokateur t1_iqsnkgd wrote on October 2, 2022 at 8:15 PM

No one knows. No one has found a pronunciation guide from ancient Greece (and even if we did, it would be written in a language we didn't know how to pronounce, so it wouldn't help) and obviously we don't have audio recordings.

I've taken a few graduate classes in Classical philosophy, and in each the professor said that we don't have the correct pronunciation of terms, so we should just say it phonetically or however we prefer.

What matters is what Thomas More intended in the 16th century, which other comments speak to.

WaddlingTriforce t1_iqqmnjq wrote on October 2, 2022 at 11:54 AM

Probably something like: "Eh-oo-t-ο-p-os"

(I'm not certain exactly how the omicron was pronounced)

And know that the "Eu" later became the sound "you" as in Euphoria or Euclid, so it'd transform into "you-topia"

Sam_k_in t1_iqsghc9 wrote on October 2, 2022 at 7:32 PM

Maybe like the german ö?

Remon_Kewl t1_iqqvc3b wrote on October 2, 2022 at 1:17 PM

Not only in modern greek. Pronunciation started shifting in the hellenistic era with the koine greek. Also, by the time this word was coined, the 16th century, the pronunciation was "eftopia".

CPEBachIsDead t1_iqts5up wrote on October 3, 2022 at 12:57 AM

And do you suppose Thomas More was intending to harken to the Greek of his day or of the ancients?

Remon_Kewl t1_iqtu3km wrote on October 3, 2022 at 1:12 AM

I'm gonna guess neither? Or he didn't really care, since utopia first of all isn't the greek form anyway, it's outopia, as others have said in here. Besides, it's not like the english pronunciation of eutopia is closer to the ancient Greek one than "eftopia". The point of the post the person above the one you answered to was that utopia and eutopia would be pronounced the same, which is false.