I like intel, but after seeing them drag their feet, play games with gatekeeping technology, buying up small companies and running their technologies into the ground, having intentionally confusing terminology and nomenclature and product lines that are meant to extract as much money from each product segment and customer as possible, and taking innovative technologies like optane and kicking them to death, I can’t say I mind it too much.

I want them to climb back in the ring, but I also want them to learn a lesson or two.

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> having intentionally confusing terminology and nomenclature and product lines that are meant to extract as much money from each product segment and customer as possible

This is why I haven't had an Intel processor in over a decade.

Just...could not be arse figuring out the difference between the 1234K, the 1324, the 1243, and the 1342K, even though they've got the same clocks and cores, and then wondering if that motherboard I want is the right motherboard for it.

AMD is killing it in server.

NVIDIA upvoted this

Even Apple develops their own in-house ARM chips and cut off Intel.

I can see Intel becoming a fab that supplies chips to other companies in the future, much like TSMC. Unless Jim Kelley's design in 2025 is a banger of architecture, Intel is in trouble if they stay the current course.

> I like intel

Having read the entire comment, I am bound to ask... why?

Because I know every company is made up of good people and bad. But for most of intels life, there’ve been a lot of good people advancing computers for everybody. Recently it’s all the MBAs and shareholders who are running the company.

And that’s going to lead windows to release better arm versions and maybe more losses for intel down the line.

Yep, Apple is all about vertical integration and walled gardens.

They’re already trying to do that.

Seems like every processor needs its own mobo for it when it comes to Intel and their mobos, regardless who makes them, are expensive. There were like 5 generations of cpus on the AMD side that used one socket and didn't see any degrading of performance when upgrading to newer processors.

If I am not mistaken their GPU line has still yet to produce anything for them in terms of market penetration. Still, it's hard to do anything when you release very little product and what you do release is riddled with so many bugs in the drivers upon release. I think some of the driver issues are resolved, but I'm not 100% sure.

I wonder if Microsoft would be open to buying Intel...

I loved when they simply removed a single pin - 1156 to 1155 - just to fuck over backwards compatibility, while still being able to use the same tooling for the processors and saving themselves money...while ensuring the consumer has to upgrade more than just his CPU.

Man, I just learned that Keller's brother in law is Jordan Peterson.

Poor Jim.

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Typical huge market share company resting on its laurels. Not unlike Netware back in the day. AMD created the multi core CPU with Opteron in the early 2000s and Intel laughed at them. The need for multi core systems ticked up at the same time as VMware started to be adopted across data centers. AMD subsequently flubbed the rollout of their quad core CPUs and Intel decided to paste two 2 core cpus into on socket and never looked back. Once AMD went dormant in the server market Intel turned on cruise control and started creating all kinds of expensive SKUs for CPUs that didnt innovate. Once again AMD says we are going to create these EPYC CPUs with 64c and decent frequencies using and more efficient fab process and Intel decided to wait and see and half heartedly begin design of competitive large core CPUs. Its been 5 years (and 3 revisions) since the EPYC has been released and Intels answer, Sapphire Rapids, is still not available for purchase. The rehire if Paul Gelsinger was the right move, but will it be too late?

Yeah, fucking greed at its finest. This isn't something new with Intel either. They tried to do do away with the socket years ago saying sockets have gone as far as the technology would allow, and introduced Slot 1. Luckily that bullshit died real fast.

Totally, that's why they lost a massive anti trust lawsuit nearly 20 years ago. The shitty behavior is definitely new. 100%.

That said, their GPUs are the core component of the upcoming Aurora exascale supercomputer, which will be the most powerful supercomputer in the world.

Pretty sure that lesson is to be an even more aggressive company, unfortunately.

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I don't know, I never really thought intel's processor naming was that hard to understand....

13 - Generation

7 - Processor SKU/Line (i.e. i7)

00

K/F/S - Unlocked/No Graphics/Special Edition

Is there a word missing from the authors title??

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Same. I’m not sure if it’s the blue cool-aid that I’m drinking or what, but their naming schemes aren’t that confusing.

Not to mention each of my builds gets researched as I’m figuring out what components I’ll be using – so I never really had any issues with guaranteeing that everything works once I get all the hardware together.

However if the objective is to head to the store, grab a bunch of parts off the shelf, and have everything just fit together when building at home, then yeah I guess it’s currently not so straightforward.

They would slay if the sold their chips for server use, though.

Pat Gilsinger is good at marketing. That's it.

Your link shows that AMD grew in market share, taking away from Intel, which agrees with both reality and the comment you're replying to.

This is why people bag hold. They don't read.

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I do not think we could have 1TB ram inside the CPU for Server use. Maybe in 10 years, but not now. That is the big game changer of the M1/2 is that the ram is built into the CPU not needing a bus to move through. I believe it is as big of a leap in speed as spinning disk to SSD. Yes, it sucks for upgradability of ram, but the speed difference is by far worth it.

Intel could have pushed opencl to compete with cuda. But they botched it and I believe it was on purpose. There was just one person working on beignet for so long.

They could not let go of their x86 compatibility and “ecosystem” as a talking point and wanted to kill any advancement in heterogeneous computing. They shot themselves in the foot.

I don’t blame amd for not trying hard enough. Things might be good for them now but back when opencl could have used some investment they were busy putting fires.

So yeah. Screw intel and screw apple for their neglect of opencl. And screw them if they say don’t use cuda because it’s not open source.

That’s exactly what they’re trying to do in Ohio and elsewhere

If only they had that on their website somewhere easy and obvious

That's the perfect way to finally push me away from Windows.

Lol, exactly. Intel’s own report cited AMD as a major reason for their fall in servers.

Bad idea, unless you want to accelerate the trend of paying a subscription fee to unlock the full potential of the hardware you "own".

Server admin here - I started buying AMD instead of Intel back in 2018 when Spectre cam out (Intel CPU slowed down by 30% after patch). I am not dealing with that again.

Well yeah, that was to be very expected. No one in their right mind thought Intel's first foray into discrete graphics was going to be a game changer nor even compete in the mid/value ranges. I'm certainly not buying any dysfunctional products for the record, but I'll definitely watch from the sidelines to see how many generations it takes to really get in there. They have at least 2 of them planned and in the works already

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/processors/processor-numbers.html

Literally the first result on google when you search 'intel processor naming'.

They stated "CoMpEtItIvE pReSsUrE"

They refuse to acknowledge AMD, they're too high and mighty for that.

I worked for intel in Vancouver from an acquisition they made for AR glasses called “Vaunt”. They flew us around the world, wasted billions then scrapped the project before launch about 5 months after announcing it. To this day, it was one of the most exciting and confusing projects I’ve ever worked on. I still wonder to this day what happened.

And failed miserably. I think it bankrupted 1 large company and severally harmed even more

I think El Capitan is more powerful and may come sooner.

Why would windows supporting arm better push you away?

in the stock world some people swore this wouldn't happen after the massive pandemic demand. They swore the huge sales were the new norm.

somebody will find a vulnerability in AMDs relatively new processors and force you to deal with that again.

they aren't resting on their laurels now. That was years ago. This is a general market downturn. They do have more to lose being the majority of the market.

Because for 20 years it make computer go vroom?

If you find that confusing, than I guess you haven't upgraded your computer at all in over a decade huh?

Who said "new"?

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> Once AMD went dormant in the server market Intel turned on cruise control and started creating all kinds of expensive SKUs for CPUs that didnt innovate

Whats funny is they're still doing that. Xeon SPR has a fucking subscription service!

>Intel's first foray

​

this isn't their first Rodeo with an attempt at discrete graphics.

​

i740 AGP says hello.

I feel like this is the fate of a lot of large companies whose core business, at one point, revolved around innovation and engineering. Over time, good engineering and creative innovation take a back seat to the company being run more like a hedge fund or a bank than a technology company. This is when the fall from grace usually starts.

> Every great cause begins as a movement, becomes a business, and eventually degenerates into a racket.

Eric Hoffer

Probably research came back no one would buy them. Vr/ar is a huge money sink with little demand. Its got a few more generations before its small enough and good enough for mass usage.

The one thing Intel really has going for it is many software licenses are on a per-core basis so the per-core performance matters a lot more when you are paying $15k a year for each additional one. If it weren't for that AMD would be getting a lot more of my business.

Looks like both are around 2 exaflops, guess we need to wait for the benchmarks to be certain. I don’t really follow news on that machine because it seems to be earmarked for nuclear weapon simulations rather than scientific computing.

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Future Windows on ARM could be as bad as android smartphones are today with locked down boot-loaders and unsupported driver chipsets. God help you if your windows ARM chip is a Qualcomm one. You’ll never be able to update your pc after 3 years or install an an alternate OS on it. ARM is also owned only by a single company the x86 instruction set is owned by two companies ( intel and amd ) intel and amd would rather develop an open source RISC-V architecture then pay constant licensing fees to ARM

I don’t think it failed miserably yet. They’re building a huge facility just for this in Israel.

TV naming conventions was hard for me until i googled “Samsung naming conventions”. Most of this info for any company is one 5 second search away lol

Do a quick search for amd vs intel server market graph. They are only trying now because they let AMD eat their scraps. Now AMD is poised to eat their lunch and then?

I guess they are no longer taking care of business.

One example:

https://www.theverge.com/2016/9/2/12754426/intel-core-m-processor-naming-change-confusing

Really? But heartbleed was not even a CPU vulnerability; it was an OpenSSL problem. Are you thinking of Spectre and Meltdown?

It’s crypto farms, they have had the rise and now fall, it’s cyclical

I feel like I always have to remind about the context of what capitalism considers a "loss":

>While the company remained profitable in 2022

That is, the company didn't have a loss (other than maybe on the shortest scale), they simply didn't make as much money as they wanted or have made previously. They still made more money than they spent.

It's kind of frustrating when companies then start cutting costs and firing employees, too - not because they're at risk of becoming unprofitable, but because they simply want to make more enormous profits.

14% margin drop and 33% revenue drop? No, that is not happening in the general market. Stocks are losing that value, but the companies are generally making their revenue targets.

It’s all about the “sockets”. Once you change processors you have to change the hardware and that’s a lot of money.

I heard a lot of this fell on BK’s terrible decision making (I’m also ex-Vaunt, though not by acquisition).

My favourite part was when they planned a PR blitz, backed out of announcing anything at the last minute, then details leaked, and The Verge had exclusivity rights so was able to publish their whole article as a result. The one time I haven’t been angry that something I was working on leaked.

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They also just dropped $20 billion on new manufacturing in ohio.

They have not been competitive because they did not contract out there chip manufacturing. They manufacture in-house. That is why reason AMD advanced quickly.

The ultra Capitalist MBAs would have contracted out production to minimize liability and increase flexibility.

The term for this is 'financialization' and it is endemic across all industries. The assets generated from the core business are used to continue generating money through investments and other financial tools. Even (maybe especially) cultural institutions like museums or even universities fall prey to it.

He pretty much just started, and inherited this mess. And his bona-fides are actual engineering of the old school variety. So I don't know how you can say he's just "good at marketing" based on anything.

Lol, no they wouldn't. And there's more to a server ecosystem than just the raw processor, they'd have to develop and deliver a whole lot of servery shit.

Several of things at play..

1. Execs are overpaid - basically robbing the company of its cash and liquidity and not focusing on making a great and cost effective CPU
2. Prices are still too stupid high. When you gouge too much, people just won’t buy it. They’ll buy a much cheaper AMD
3. AMD cpus are cheaper and continually innovating. When you get complacent you get sidestepped, even if technically you have a faster CPU.

"Intel 7" but it's actually 10nm
"Intel 4" but it's actually 7nm

That's marketing, and he keeps lying about how well they're doing and refusing to acknowledge AMD because they're too high and mighty, until he got his nose bloodied a bit.

Nope, 2019 was the last major upgrade.

I'm just not the sort of guy who jerks off over learning model names, and, at any rate, my time is worth a lot more than yours.

Ah I remember working with you actually when they flew us and the Israeli team down to Santa Clara to basically have a 48 hour coding hackathon. Hope all is well!

Well mister moneybags, I guess, it was an AMD processor and AMD is well known for their clear naming schemes that don't involve numbers like the Ryzen 7 3700x.

You are correct - its hard to remember all the names when there have been so many.

Rubbish. Formerly Intel's 10nm was e.g. closer to TSMC's 7. Feature sizes are not as simple as "Xnm, derp!"". Intel's new naming scheme more closely aligns with what TSMC/Samsung are using.

Yeah, not buying Intel for business when the Intel tax is like $400 per computer.

They've priced themselves out of the market in most places but gaming and fairly specific Intel only scenarios

I like how you called me "Mr. Moneybags" when you know I bought AMD.

Because no one wants to invest in a company that has stopped growing and increasing demand and profits. So to have these optics, these companies do this MBA BS to basically hide the fact that they don’t have any other new groundbreaking IP. If you lose investors, your company is basically sunk, even if you have a fantastic core product and dedicated customer base.

Which will do what exactly to their prices? Nothing, Intel is hoping Uncle Sam subsidizes them but TSCM is opening a fab and their about 10 years too late unless they get aggressive with acquisitions

I mean intels market.

WinTel vs Apple, a battle lasting over four decades, now looks like Apple is winning.

Give it four more years

It was totally absurd to think that was going to last.

Sounds a lot like ADOBE, DELL, HP, CISCO and LENOVO.

It seems like these companies get big then fire the product people to hire cheap overseas and marketing people, only to find out they cannot do the job then have to take their millions and use it to gobble up all new tech because they can no longer produce it.

My thought is that they saw the writing on the wall after AMD took the market for cards and have been planning for years to put themselves in the position to be competitive without relying on TSMC

I had one of those in the computer I bought for post secondary school before in 1997 or 98. The card didn't even support basic display properly. Had to use my roommates comp as a guide when I had to reinstall windows 95 so I could figure out the keyboard presses to install it blind. Sad thing was it was paired with dual voodoo 2 (3dfx monster2 12MB) I got seriously ripped off - ended up getting a matrox G200 as a replacement after that.

You are the one saying you are worth more than me, I am simply acknowledging your superiority.

That Matrox was a good card! OG 2D windows acceralation.

They already got the subsidiary. They just have to build the building.

This company is still awful. I like their ceo but idk if he can turn it around

For fun add the Atom, Celeron, and Pentium line. Do you want a Celeron 5125j, or a Pentium gold?

Or maybe you want a CPU with AVX512... Here's some options... And they're gone!

It definitely started with BK. I was in HR at Intel at the time, and the talk was there was a special team just to deal with him and his issues.

Where did I say that?

And saying I'm superior to you isn't that big a deal. Pretty much everything on the planet is superior to you. I've run over stuff on then highway that's superior to you.