Submitted by thebetabruh t3_10jgoi5 in television
Currently in my 5th or 6th rewatch of PoI and got to "If-Then-Else" and it's such a perfect episode of the show. The action, performances, simulations, the flashback of Harold teaching The Machine chess, the humor of the "simplified" simulation, and, of course, what happens with Shaw and Root. It's definitely the best episode of the show and I'll never really get over just how perfect it is.
It floors me that it starts out as a CBS procedural but with a twist and becomes such an incredible sci-fi epic
They totally snuck it past CBS. The show starts off pretty procedurally and doesn't really hint it will become too much more for a majority of the 1st season. People got hooked and by the time CBS realized it wasn't really what they'd been sold on it was too popular to cancel.
A writer who briefly worked on Lost was amazed that ABC got bamboozled into having an epic expensive weird sci-fi show on prime time TV.
They literally fired executive that signed on making over 10 mln dollar pilot. I'm not even sure who was right in that case.
I remember a r/dataisbeautiful post about TV show ratings and I think during 2011/2012 PoI was the 9th or 10th most popular show in the US!
I really enjoyed the show but it wasnt that popular. I recall it being on the bubble every season after the 2nd/3rd
The 1st season was really popular because it fit pretty closely to the normal CBS fare. Then in the following season it lost audience but had built up enough of a base that CBS couldn't justify cancelling it.
Eventually they could, because they didn't own the show, and didn't like splitting profits with Warner.
It helps that the procedural format gave them so much creativity. You could tell they had fun making every plot with a 'Number' unique, with some standouts being >!the role reversal episode, the one with Finch trapped in a building with the Number or every time the Number turned out to be a major character like Root or Control!<.
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>with an ending.
I hate the ending but love the show.
Curious. Why do you hate the ending?
>!I felt that John's death was very forced.!<
>!The Samaritan stuff ended up being a bit too much.!<
>!I wouldn't have minded him living, but I thought it brought his story full circle. He was introduced as someone who had nothing left to live for, no purpose, and was trying to drink himself to death. And Finch who gave him that.!<
>!Plus, he got to subvert his old "in the end we're all alone and no one is coming to save you" outlook by coming to save Finch. And symbolically having the Machine by his side as he died.!<
Truth be told, I found PoI had one of the most satisfying endings I've seen.
The >!Samaritan!< stuff did kinda drag, yeah. But personally I just disliked how we moved away from the rogue's gallery approach of the earlier seasons. And also how they make this super big deal out of it in Season 4 Episode 1 and then pretty much hand wave it away afterwards.
I think the Samaritan stuff felt a bit rushed because of how much they had to shorten the final season. I'm glad they focused more on amazing character drama and payoffs instead of the villain though.
I think the final season managed to convey what it wanted to do well enough that I did not mind too much when it failed to do it well.
My issue with Samaritan is more that the show promised this brand new status quo with the season 3 finale and season 4 premiere, where the heroes would have to be smart about how they worked. Like how John could not just go on a one-man rampage cause it would raise suspicion and he had to hire someone to create a situation his assumed identity would make sense to get involved with. But they pretty much dropped that by the next episode.
I wish they had been able to have >!Control!< return.
Also, the >!ex-MI6 guy from that one season 2 episode!<
>I wouldn't have minded him living, but I thought it brought his story full circle. He was introduced as someone who had nothing left to live for, no purpose, and was trying to drink himself to death. And Finch who gave him that.
I am fine with him dying it's the way he did that I have an issue with.
>Truth be told, I found PoI had one of the most satisfying endings I've seen.
It's not an ending that soured the rest of the show for me it just felt kind of flat.
>The Samaritan stuff did kinda drag, yeah. But personally I just disliked how we moved away from the rogue's gallery approach of the earlier seasons.
Same.
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It takes two or three seasons to get good.
I'll join you in downvote land -
And then after it gets good, it gets pretty repetitive.
There are some great characters and moments but there's a lot of the same tone and type of action for large sequences of episodes, even after it is thought by some to get beyond the procedural format.
With one fault. The forced romance between Reese and Carter. Or was it just me that it seemed weird or shoehorned in?
Totally agreed. I literally blocked that memory out of my head.
The worst thing is that I don't think those types of spontaneous romances are something the studio forced in, because it's not really marketable. Which means it's something the writers thought for some reason would be a good idea.
Certainly a misstep, but not a big one in the grand scheme of things.
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The kind of romances that are shoehorned into TV shows at the last minute.
The worst example of these I can think of was Warehouse 13, where the two leads, after having spent YEARS with a sibling-style relationship (and even had an episode specifically about how they are not attracted to each other), suddenly discover that they love each other in the very last episode.
I stopped watching once they made one of the characters gay just to make them gay, but the show was top-notch quality up until then.
I personally pick The Devil's Share as the best episode but this is definitely #2 in my book.
My top 3 are probably If-Then-Else, The Devil's Share, and The Day the World Went Away, but the HR trilogy is still most likely the absolute apex of the show
The opening of The Devil's Share is some absolutely incredible television. I think If-Then-Else is very compelling for how it shows the perspective of the Machine, but the emotional impact of The Devil's Share puts it ahead for me every time.
I really liked God-Mode.
Agreed... The whole opening sequence with Johnny Cash's Hurt gives me chills every time I see it
The most amazing use of music in the show is when they played 'When the World Went Away' >!after Root died and Finch went crazy!<.
Welcome to the Machine and Exit Music (For a Film) were also VERY well used.
Fusco's therapy session framed his character's evolution so well. His redemption is one of the best parts of a lot of good parts in that show.
My favorite show of all time... I'm always so happy to see the rare occasion people post about it on reddit, I wish more people saw it.
Shame Jim Caviezel is such a shitbag, but yeah still a great show. In fact this thread kinda made me wanna rewatch the whole thing, it’s been a while.
> Shame Jim Caviezel is such a shitbag
googles... oh goddamnit.
Some stuff off the top of my head that affected the production of the show.
• He didn't want Reese and Carter to be together because he didn't believe in interracial relationships, but he's the one who improvised their kiss.
•He would sometimes get too in character and almost hit people if he was driving and sometimes hurt stuntmen during a fight scene.
•At one point, it was considered killing him off and making Shaw the main muscle. I believe around season 4.
Yea there were definitely signs that guy easily lost touch with reality, so I think it does make sense he's a conspiracy nut. But fortunately It doesn't impact my enjoyment of the show. The writing is just that good.
> • He didn't want Reese and Carter to be together because he didn't believe in interracial relationships, but he's the one who improvised their kiss.
Shitty reason made up by a shitty person, but he was right that Carter and Reece shouldn't have been a couple though. For completely different reasons, but they should not have and the kiss should not have been there.
> He didn't want Reese and Carter to be together because he didn't believe in interracial relationships, but he's the one who improvised their kiss.
Good decision, shitty reason.
Kissing another actor doesn't feel like something it's super-appropriate to improvise... :(
To counter that, Amy Acker is one of the nicest people ever :)
Also apparently really dumb? Even not counting the stupid Qanon shit apparently he was a real hazard on set.
Yeah, it’s definitely not talked about enough in general which is frustrating. Anyone that’s seen the show knows it can compete with some of the best shows in the last decade.
The music in that episode was also amazing.
The music is generally great. Exit Music (For A Film) is still stuck on my head along with the accompanying monologue.
Also, Ramin Djawadi was the composer for most (if not all) the soundtrack iirc.
And Fortune Days by The Glitch Mob during the shootout sequences were also amazing. A perfect song for them.
I have a favourite scene for a different reason. It was the mind blowing realization of what actually did happen in the Control interrogate Root scene. Spoiler ahead:
>!At the end Root broke out of the cage because, despite what Control believed, the machine was in communication with her using morse code in high pitch sound. But since the pitch was high enough older people was insensitive to them, Control couldn't hear it. Well that was clever. Except that during the broadcast they actually did use the high pitch sound and many audience including my self couldn't hear it. But younger audience could. The amount of confusion created during the broadcast was just delicious. https://www.reddit.com/r/PersonOfInterest/comments/1up00n/decoded_the_morse_code_spoilers/<
Always nice to see an appreciation post for POI, my dad worked on it and really put his heart and soul into the show.
that's awesome! he helped make one of my favorite shows of all time
He says they all really expected Denise, the writer of the episode, to win an Emmy for If-Then-Else, but they overestimated the academy folks ability to understand it lol
yeah it's so exceptionally written, performed, and directed but yeah I can see that. I figured Michael Emerson should have won something but alas
Person of Interest was such a fun show to watch, it helped me go through the first months of pandemic.
While I have my gripes with the ending, that this kind of show managed to have an ending instead of just being cut short is impressive.
Person of Interest is so underrated- at least in my circle of people. The last two seasons are so captivating and the shows ability to keep an overarching story line so consistent while still doing weekly episodes is Chefs Kiss There are several episodes I am so impatient to get to when rewatching and If-then-else is one of those episodes.
i completely agree
It's a really interesting episode because we see how the Machine thinks, running all these parallel realities in milliseconds to determine the best course of action... And it is still not enough.
One of my all time favorite episode. The “no one is more important than anyone else” scene with Finch and the Machine playing chess in the park is a scene I randomly watch I love it so much.
Such an incredible show.
I really loved first seasons but last couple of seasons John start to have lesser screen time while some other characters gets more time which i didnt really like. Still one of my fav shows tho.
To me John's and Finch's past were always strongest points of the show. I just love those reveal scenes. Also Elias was amazing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1A9DIbmHuk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdeJEiwE5Tg
These two might be my fav scenes in entire series. I was really more fan of earlier seasons with mystery and shit lol.
Anyway its amazing action/scifi/new story every episode kinda show and i would recommend to everyone
Edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37MNDqPJZgo This was also amazing scene. Man i really love POI. Also where i live this show is/was one of the most watched/talked American shows on internet.
There is a very good reason why John’s screen time was reduced. The reason is that Jim Caivezel was often a gigantic asshole on set and a hazard to boot.
I was quite sorry to hear about this afterwards.
What’d he do?
I don't know what he did on the show but I saw a video of him going on an adrenochrome rant for some qanon conference. Was pretty damn disappointing.
Well thats sad but i dont think that was the biggest reason why John scenes were lowered. It was because we learned John's past etc. in first 3 season already and show wanted to go about full machine and Samatrian (dont google if you didnt watch the show lol)
Its sad to read things about Jim Caviezel tho. He as a John Reese one of the most charismatic tv/action character i watched.
That might be true from a story point of view but the real world reason played a bigger part. They started putting John under a balaclava more and more in later seasons so a stunt actor could do the part.
The reason was Jim Caivezel often went over zealous and started hurting the crew while doing action scenes. This is not even half of it.
There is a podcast that detailed all the happened behind the scenes.
[Typical reddit comment of wholehearted agreement].
I understood that reference
Great episode, currently doing a rewatch and got it coming up (it'll take a few weeks to get to it though).
Where are you guys watching it? I keep checking for where I can stream it. Thanks!
it's been on HBO Max for a while, but it goes away on Jan 28 (this Saturday!! :( ) so I was doing a rewatch before then
WHAT? Damnit!!
It’s on freevee with ads
I enjoyed it when it first aired and have been meaning to re-watch it.
When I renewed my HBOMax subscription for The Last of Us last week, I was surprised to see PoI listed, which caused me to have a feelsforreals moment and it's been such a joy to watch again.
I was thinking of starting my first rewatch of it tonight after finishing it when it last aired.
I watched the show years after it finished its run, "discovering" it one day on one of the streaming services. I was hooked, really hooked, and applaud the show for the unique characters it created and the great parts it gave some very talented people. I do think it ran a tad longer than it needed to, but that is neither here nor there.
And, yes, this episode was spectacular. What makes it particularly outstanding was that it came late in the show's run. Just when you think they were out of ideas, pow!
One of the best shows from that time period
I have suggested this show to quite a few of my friends, but no one watched it. It is well-written, well-acted, the music is amazing and it is so thematically relevant today, and will continue to get more relevant as AI grows and becomes commonplace and more of a household name. It will gain traction in the years to come, and I hope it gets its due credit in the future. As of now, it is severely underrated
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I like the episode, but on rewatches it's always marred for me because I know that >!Shaw's death!< is a fakeout. I don't have many problems with the show overall, but that decision I absolutely hate. Such a brilliant conclusion to that character's arc, and they squander it.
She only got written out because Sarah Shahi got pregnant though - personally really liked Shaw coming back in S5.
As someone without the time to invest in the series (kids, wife etc), what would I need to know in order to enjoy this episode if I watch it on its own.
While I wouldn't recommend that: (spoilers ahead) >!Harold Finch (Michael Emerson) created a Machine after 9/11 that would use all cameras, the internet, and phones/texts to learn about people and help prevent terror attacks. He recruits an ex-CIA agent John Reese (Jim Caviezel) to help him out. For most of the show they get social security numbers of people in New York who might be the victim or the perpetrator of a crime and have to determine which one a person of interest is and stop the crime from happening. Eventually Lionel Fusco (Kevin Chapman), Root (Amy Acker), and Sameen Shaw (Sarah Shahi) join them in their endeavors. Along the way, a second AI, Samaritan, is activated and has the same capabilities of The Machine, but without the moral compass Harold was able to program in, so it's essentially a ruthless, evil AI.!<
I've missed out on some other plotlines, but for this specific episode that's probably all that's necessary
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magus-21 t1_j5k8tgi wrote
Person of Interest deserves SUCH props for being a big broadcast television procedural that still managed to be inventive, compelling, AND tell a long-running story with an ending.