Comments
Echidnae t1_j2da2qp wrote
Why is it bad for us to eliminate too much CO2 ? I thought carbon dioxide was just a residue that we would want to eliminate
xXZoulocKXx t1_j2dbec3 wrote
CO2 is also called carbonic acid. Breathing out too much of it changes the PH of the blood, and can cause dizziness.
DMRexy t1_j2dvmoy wrote
CO2 isn't called carbonic acid. Carbonic acid is H2CO3. So, CO2 + H2O. CO2 combines with the water in your blood to produce it.
xXZoulocKXx t1_j2dw95o wrote
Ah, thanks. TIL.
DMRexy t1_j2edctd wrote
💜
silvesterdepony t1_j2eohc3 wrote
CO2 isn't just a waste product, it has a very important purpose of managing pH of our blood - something that is actually a lot more important for our body than O2 levels (we have a much greater tolerance for O2 changes than CO2)
The body is about balance (homeostasis) in basically everything
tylizard t1_j2eyl4y wrote
"lot more important" is probably the wrong way to put that both are essential to life.
silvesterdepony t1_j2f0988 wrote
There are a ton of things that are essential to life, but we can still create a hierarchy of importance based on various criteria such as tolerance to disruption of homeostasis.
We have very little tolerance for the disruption of CO2 homeostasis before our brain freaks out.
WCRugger t1_j2di74h wrote
Also helps slow your breathing that helps retain CO2. There's a technique called square breathing where to exhale for 5 secs. Hold for 5. Inhale for 5 before holding ng again. The bag makes for a good physical representation.
Kolada t1_j2dxlu6 wrote
Alright so I was told that this is incorrect (or at least only partially correct). I was told the main reason you breath into a bag during a panic attack is to make it easier to focus on your breathing. You can see the breath go in and out so you can pace and make sure you're not forgetting to exhale (which is a common reason why people feel like they can't breath during panic).
Somhlth t1_j2dyb8c wrote
It can be both.
> Breathing into a paper bag is a technique that can help you regulate hyperventilation. It works by putting some of the lost carbon dioxide back into your lungs and body. This helps to balance oxygen flow in your body.
>However, breathing into a paper bag must be done properly and may not work for everyone. Medical research on using it to help hyperventilation is divided on whether it really works.
>Some case studies don’t recommend using this breathing technique.
>Other medical review studies find that breathing into a paper bag can help some patients with hyperventilation.
https://www.healthline.com/health/anxiety/breathing-into-a-paper-bag
RiceCakeAlchemist t1_j2ce6ph wrote
It also works if you pretend you have an imaginary bag. It's hard to explain to the people watching though.
[deleted] t1_j2cjsqv wrote
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Allthepancakemix t1_j2cjakk wrote
That only works for the anxiety, so only indirectly for the hyperventilation.
LiamTheHuman t1_j2co6n9 wrote
That's funny, I would say it works for the hyperventilation and indirectly on the anxiety
Allthepancakemix t1_j2copdz wrote
It works for the act of hyperventilating, it slows down your breathing and focuses you on something besides the panic, but doesn't have a direct effect on the balance of blood gases. The rebreathing of CO2 is what helps with that, and you obviously don't get that without a real bag.
LiamTheHuman t1_j2cq3ks wrote
I don't think we take in CO2 through our lungs. I might be wrong but I think it's just slowing down how much CO2 is breathed out and lowering the amount of oxygen taken in that increases CO2 in the blood back to regular levels. So slowing breathing is very similar to using a paper bag in how it works.
Allthepancakemix t1_j2cqnh2 wrote
You're absolutely right, it's the lowering of oxygen levels (I was being a dumbass, my med school professor would smack me for this) When breathing in an actual bag, it just goes down faster.
OneSideDone OP t1_j2cklc2 wrote
Don’t worry. They see the bag. They are imaginary too.
jghaines t1_j2cud7m wrote
Better is to pull your top over your face if a bag isn’t handy
542Archiya124 t1_j2d1owy wrote
That’ll be the placebo effect
thirdeyefish t1_j2cf3jw wrote
Sometimes, when you are writing for a movie or TV, you pull experience from reality.
rachelm791 t1_j2chchu wrote
I guess (without reading the article) it relates to hyperventilation and blood gases (oxygen saturation and co2 levels). So is the premise to rebreathe the expelled co2?
-eightofdiamonds- t1_j2cjz7j wrote
Yes! That’s exactly it. Hyperventilation (particularly due to anxiety) messes up the delicate balance between O2 and CO2 levels in the blood, so rebreathing it helps restore that balance.
rachelm791 t1_j2d9eww wrote
Need to have a chat with the limbic system
rachelm791 t1_j2cwykd wrote
And to stop hyperventilating would probably be a good idea too!
-eightofdiamonds- t1_j2d22th wrote
Yeah of course, but it isn’t always as simple as that! The fight-or-flight response that gets activated during panic/anxiety attacks can be pretty potent, so it might take a while for someone to regulate their breathing again.
mariogolf t1_j2cv9ju wrote
why would you think it wasnt real?
dring157 t1_j2cvs8n wrote
They taught us this in Boy Scouts. My dad, a doctor, was always angry whenever this was pushed though. It may help someone mentally if they are hyperventilating from an anxiety attack, but it can cause harm in numerous other situations like if a person is having a heart attack or an asthma attack. A doctor or EMT would likely never have a patient breath into a paper bag.
seniorfrito t1_j2f365p wrote
> However, it’s important to note that rebreathing is unsafe for certain people, particularly those with heart or lung problems. Having too little oxygen in the blood, which is known as hypoxemia, can share symptoms with an anxiety attack. These include shortness of breath, dizziness and rapid breathing. If someone experiencing hypoxemia practices rebreathing with a paper bag, they’re not only making their immediate condition worse, they’re putting themselves in danger. The bottom line is, unless you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that you’re hyperventilating due to an anxiety attack, leave the paper bag maneuver to the TV writers.
The last paragraph and really the last line are the most important here. While it may work, it will only work if you're actually having a panic attack. Otherwise you're just doing yourself harm.
[deleted] t1_j2cgsa1 wrote
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ccaffall t1_j2chgvz wrote
Wow
LeftOnQuietRoad t1_j2cmgit wrote
Tachypnea = alkalosis
Alkalosis = boops the H+ off Albumin
Ca++ = slides in albumin’s dm’s
Transient low Ca++ = tingle tangles
Blessed_tenrecs t1_j2dcp5y wrote
You can simulate this by cupping your hands around your mouth if you’re desperate. I’ve done it.
sfo1dms t1_j2e6kuq wrote
Had a CT scan yesterday (post cancer checkup) and i thought the exact same thing when i had anxiety and was breathing into the mask. immediately calmed down too :)
RedJudas t1_j2f0io4 wrote
I did a mental health first aid course through St John Ambulance and the School Board, and the instructor said in absolute terms that this is a bad idea. When someone is hyperventilating, the last thing you want to do is make it harder for them to breathe.
His recommendation is that you give them a paper bag, but put a hole in it. The bag becomes a placebo for them because they see it as something they know is supposed to help them. That stops the hyperventilating because they're panicking and now feel comfortable. The hole is to help them keep breathing.
weewilly77 t1_j2cxfnb wrote
I always thought that they were huffing paint
HappyPants8 t1_j2d2yjx wrote
Probably because it provides a visual representation of controlling your breath rate
ElfMage83 t1_j2dg4l0 wrote
That's part of it, but the bigger reason is the concentration of carbon dioxide in the blood. It's not that we need more oxygen, it's that we need less carbon dioxide.
It's a fine balance.
LeapIntoInaction t1_j2cdhx1 wrote
Yeah, it's a real thing, but it's not backed up by science. It was discredited at least 50 years ago, so try to keep up.
ZoraNovaTarot t1_j2cfwro wrote
Hrm. UCLA Health says it is a thing, but this rando says isn’t…
…what to believe…what to believe…
shmoove_cwiminal t1_j2cglzy wrote
From the article:
"The bottom line is, unless you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that you’re hyperventilating due to an anxiety attack, leave the paper bag maneuver to the TV writers."
ZoraNovaTarot t1_j2cgucx wrote
The line you quoted is implying my point exactly- that it works for hyperventilating during a panic attack. If you are NOT hyperventilating due to a panic attack, leave it to tv writers.
[deleted] t1_j2ch412 wrote
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ZoraNovaTarot t1_j2chme1 wrote
Yes, I also read the article. You are posting things in support of my argument. Let me explain since this is clearly wooshing right over you:
OP said “breathing in a paper bag works for hyperventilation during a panic attack.”
I said “breathing in a paper bag works for hyperventilation during a panic attack.”
You and the other person said “No guys, it says right here that it doesn’t work for hypoxemia.”
…
deabag t1_j2chxxq wrote
I think u got it
etherjack t1_j2cgs6p wrote
Would love to read the 50+ year old studies you're referring to. All current recommendations are that using the "breathing into a bag" method works but should only be used if the hyperventilation is due to a panic attack. There are other things that can cause hyperventilation, in which case rebreathing like this can be dangerous.
wrextnight t1_j2cftcx wrote
>Yeah, it's a real thing
OK
> but it's not backed up by science
So, it's magic?
>try to keep up
How can we keep up when thing$ change everytime someone want$ to po$t a click bait article?
Somhlth t1_j2cgxm3 wrote
It's called hyperventilating, a symptom of which is that you breath rapidly and as a result, your body eliminates more carbon dioxide than it can produce. Breathing into a bag, where you exhale carbon dioxide, can somewhat ease this process as you inhale back a greater percentage of carbon dioxide than you would without the bag.