Submitted by _ivantheterrible__ t3_123wds0 in vermont

In the last months i've matured the idea of moving to Vermont after falling in love with the dreamish landscapes, from what i've seen your state is one if not the safest in the whole USA, and to a nature, cold weather and hiking lover as me it just sounds like paradise. I'm from Palermo italy and looking to work in Vermont for some time until i have enough money and experience to start my own business (A small restaurant). Question is, what are the towns or cities that you guys would suggest? Preferably ones where say the culinary sector isn't oversaturated and there's walkability/bicyclability around? Thanks in advance. :)

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vermont4runner t1_jdwnz01 wrote

I’ll be incredibly blunt. You’re probably not going to make it here long term.

Our housing costs are extravagant.

Heating costs are stupid high this past year.

There are very few jobs that pay a damn, fewer that provide a comfortable living.

Our winters are extremely cold some years, milder in others, but after hosting two students from Europe it’s way colder and harsher here. They still talk about the cold years later.

If you’re absolutely dead set on this I have to recommend the Burlington and Williston areas. Long term that’s your best bet for a restaurant. We just don’t have the population to support non chain restaurants most places in the state. Most towns have zero options for dine in or take out food and you have to drive 20-30min each way to find some.

I sincerely wish you the best of luck and would love to try some authentic Italian cuisine. We have pretty much no authentic foreign food in this state. It would likely do well here but with operating costs being what they are there are still many challenges to overcome.

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_ivantheterrible__ OP t1_jdwqdtp wrote

First of all thank you for your honesty and detail, i'm from a reality of paradoxes, for instance healthcare is "free" but it's so inefficient most people turn to private clinics anyway, where they have to wait for their inexorable fate in unending lines. The traffic is most of the times unexplicably unruly, and public transportation is insufficient and inefficient. Bureaucracy is extremely complicated and slow and the taxes are high for no reason at all considering the lack of public service in every aspect possible. Also the weather here is absolute hell, the mediterranean has slowly transformed into a sort of rainforest without the forest, extremely hot and humid and full of bugs in the summer, and unending rain in the winter, the last time i've seen snow was like five years ago and it lasted for 25 minutes. So yes, i'm aware that the housing prices and the operating costs can be a real pain but from my point of view i'm just escaping from hell (lol). I think i will visit anyway the next time i'm in the US, just to see how everything feels.

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vermont4runner t1_jdwrxbl wrote

Your experience lines up with what our students told us as well. Many in America romanticize European life but don’t realize that many Europeans do the same to American life lol.

If you need regular healthcare that’s something you need to heavily consider. We’re losing doctors quickly here for the same reasons I previously listed. Expect months at times to be seen for non emergencies. Longer for specialists. Then the large costs associated with them.

Tax wise, compared to Europe, it’s not that bad here. Expect about 25-30% for single. 20-25% if married filing jointly. You don’t get much for it but most taxes fund our military who also tend to get involved internationally. I’ve been told by a good friend in the Netherlands who’s much older than I that Europe banks on us for military strength if things really hit the fan. Yay no healthcare…

I highly recommend visiting in July to see our peak heat and again in February to experience our true cold. We’re a state of extremes but lean more towards the cold side.

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yeehaw_brah t1_jdzt6z1 wrote

This person is so wrong about food and restaurants. Burlington is the only place you’ll really find big chains. I live in the boonies and every town of a few thousand people has a couple of really awesome local restaurants. I was surprised at how great the food is. I haven’t had fast food in years now because there just isn’t any out here. But I eat great local food all the time.

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BudsKind802 t1_jdyq8v5 wrote

As much as this sub pushes away people from moving here, there are chances for people to move here successfully. To better understand the area, try to visit some time in mid spring or late fall to see the worst of the seasons. There's a big difference between the sun of Italy and the cloudy dull weather that's prevalent here.

Job listings are plentiful online for restaurant workers, and that same shortage makes it difficult for small business owners to keep their businesses open. You can use the pay information you find to budget out what you can afford for housing (should be no more than 1/3rd your monthly take home pay), heating costs for 6-7 months, health care (you're fully on your own for insurance in most restaurant jobs) through the exchanges, car + insurance + gas (which will be significantly cheaper than what you pay), an extra set of winter clothing and gear, services like water and sewer and trash collection, and groceries. Once you have that budget number, you can search around for available housing onliine, which you'll find is limited and more expensive than many US cities. That will be your reality check.

It's not impossible to survive and thrive here, but it's more difficult than many parts of the country. The lower the pay you take in, the harder it will be. A Sicilian restaurant that puts out consistent, authentic, quality food would do well here, either in the larger areas or the rural towns that have no real food options. My local pizza place started in our small town 30 minutes of Burlington, and they've grown to 3 locations that all seem to do a brisk business.

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Historical-Run-1511 t1_jdxwo83 wrote

The obvious answer is Burlington, it's the biggest city and very walkable, lots of restaurants but lots of people with money to eat in them it seems. Might put Brandon or Middlebury on the list--they're much smaller but very cute downtowns. Middlebury has a college which probably helps as well. Good luck!

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DaddyBobMN t1_jdy3fh1 wrote

Bear in mind that the one big city in Vermont, Burlington, is a very small city by most American standards. There's a lot to do in comparison to the rest of Vermont but it's still pretty quiet by City standards. Similar with town size, big and busy in Vermont context is small and sleepy compared to most anywhere else in America save the remote West, deep in Appalachia, or Alaska.

If that's what you want and expect, you'll be fine, but to really understand Vermont (and a lot of the answers you'll get from born and bred Vermonters) you need to bear that subjective size and scope.

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HayrideTrail t1_je45tme wrote

Go for it! You will do fine here as Americans live to eat and eat. Come in the late spring and you will love the summer and Autumn. Winter is only 5.5 months long and most days are pretty nice. You will want to be active outside as much as possible. -28F may happen a few days but it makes 20F seem warm. Stowe / Waterbury/ Morrisville are busy year round and really nice people. Skiing, snowmobiling, Mountain Biking, etc .Housing is a challenge but you will be working all the time. That is how people survive, work. The work culture may surprise you.

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Classic-Walrus-7752 t1_je2tips wrote

I’ve lived in several countries and 3 states in the US, and I’ve noticed that people tend to not appreciate where they were born and raised. They often can’t understand why someone should CHOOSE to live there. I think that is the most common when people aren’t unhappy and think the solution would be to live somewhere else. When I left the US, I thought the entire country was horrible. I wanted OUT. It took me a few years away to gain a different perspective on things. I began to see that all places have their issues and the US had a lot of positives that I had not appreciated before.

All of that is just to say you should ignore the people who are unhappy here in VT. If you like multiple aspects, go for it. Find your people. You will have to work for it, but it will pay off. Some aspects of living here are harder than in other parts of the US, but some are much easier. It depends on your priorities and outlook.

Now, the issue with people saying to stay out because there isn’t housing and you don’t belong….those aren’t your people. Ignore the chatter. If you succeed in starting a business and get involved in the community, you are contributing. They are looking for someone to blame when the issues in this state are far more complex and have been building for years.

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random_vermonter t1_jdxq1ga wrote

Here's a good tip: Don't.

Or at least wait until the housing situation sorts itself out.

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