Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments

Pinkumb t1_j4wm1f2 wrote

People should be aware this is rapidly becoming a culture war issue. This is largely because 1) an associated press bombshell article about Canada's medical assistance in dying program (MAID) and 2) American conservatives reorienting their arguments about pro-life to focus on this issue.

The gist of the pro argument is it is only humane to allow people to choose when to die. We know the vast majority of a person's lifetime medical expenses will occur within 90 days of their death. We know medical debt is the main reason people declare bankruptcy. We know there's nothing stopping people from killing themselves in less humane ways (as referenced in this article). The pro argument is an appeal to common decency and practicality.

The gist of the anti argument is these policies innately corrupt medical institutions that are supposed to be stalwart advocates for your right to life. After the initial report in August 2022, there have been a string of anecdotal stories from elderly or disabled people in Canada who had some totally survivable illness and were prescribed MAID. This has extended to individuals who believe they were disliked by medical staff and it would be more convenient to simply "assist" their death. The anti argument is a moral argument that you can't trust institutions with this kind of irreversible power.

Personally, I was pretty convinced of the pro argument up until these reports. The thing that's been really disturbing is seeing the Tik Tok trend of kids with depression talking about how they can't wait to turn 18 so they can apply for MAID. I really don't know what to do with that.

Sharing this because I thought people might relate to the shift in views I personally experienced over the past few months.

24

JoviAMP t1_j4wpl67 wrote

> Personally, I was pretty convinced of the pro argument up until these reports. The thing that's been really disturbing is seeing the Tik Tok trend of kids with depression talking about how they can't wait to turn 18 so they can apply for MAID. I really don't know what to do with that.

Not much. No medical practitioner worth their license would ever entertain the idea of somebody not even old enough to buy a can of PBR to undergo assisted suicide.

20

Pinkumb t1_j4wsic9 wrote

I'd like to believe no medical practitioner would approve a guy for assisted suicide because of "hearing loss" but that's the world we're in.

2

AhbabaOooMaoMao t1_j4x89h8 wrote

I've definitely talked to people with tinnitus who said that it was driving them slowly insane and making them want to die.

In fact I recall that people with tinnitus have a higher rate of suicide.

7

Warpedme t1_j4xivs8 wrote

I hope I live in a world where one day a person can decide to humanely end their life without having to tell anyone their private reasons. Because it's no one else's business, nor choice.

4

spmahn t1_j4xq0qf wrote

I live in a world where I would prefer a perfectly healthy person who wants to end their life gets treatment for their mental health rather than assisted suicide

6

Pinkumb t1_j4xswck wrote

Just to be clear the original response to my concern was "no medical professional would approve such a death" and we have effortlessly transitioned to "yes a medical professional would approve of such a death and it's none of your business."

2

Warpedme t1_j4xua0l wrote

A medical professional shouldn't even be required. It's a personal decision that should not require the approval of anyone else.

0

Pinkumb t1_j4yg7yb wrote

And you're not at all concerned about the dozens of stories of disabled people who need tremendous care being pressured to accept MAID to make other people's lives easier?

0

AhbabaOooMaoMao t1_j4x82op wrote

>People should be aware this is rapidly becoming a culture war issue. This is largely because 1) an associated press bombshell article about Canada's medical assistance in dying program (MAID) and 2) American conservatives reorienting their arguments about pro-life to focus on this issue.... > >The gist of the pro argument is it is only humane to allow people to choose when to die. We know the vast majority of a person's lifetime medical expenses will occur within 90 days of their death. We know medical debt is the main reason people declare bankruptcy.

>The gist of the anti argument is these policies innately corrupt medical institutions that are supposed to be stalwart advocates for your right to life.

Conservatives are turning this into a culture war because of the part that I have placed in bold.

The stated gist of the anti-argument is the alleged corruption of medical doctoring. That's a pretext. I'm sure that there are some religious types and literal adherents of the Hippocratic Oath that are serious, but in the halls of government, this is coming from the health care lobby and drug companies and their lapdog Republicans.

8

LazyUpvote88 t1_j4xsdfa wrote

So conservatives are against it because they want dying people to run up a bunch of medical bills before they die? Sorry I don’t understand

7

madnessdanz t1_j4xw8og wrote

No, seems you did understand

5

LazyUpvote88 t1_j4yto3o wrote

Why would they want that? I’m dense.

0

letsseeaction t1_j4zwjg2 wrote

GOP is pro big business. They'd rather money be funneled into the bloated medical system than building intergenerational wealth

3

AhbabaOooMaoMao t1_j4y6zcl wrote

Medical debt is a three for one for the billionaire class.

Make money treating you, make money keeping you in the workforce, make money keeping your kids in the workforce.

A case of cancer or a catastrophic injury quickly turns into generational poverty, in the land of the free.

3

LazyUpvote88 t1_j4ytwj6 wrote

So if my parents die from cancer and rack up medical debt as they’re going out, am I expected to pay it off?

3

katycatnip t1_j4yuzh6 wrote

Not you personally, but their estate will need to pay outstanding bills. I just lost my dad after he spent the last four months in & out of the hospital and I’m not looking forward to sorting through the mountain of medical bills headed my way (I am the executor of his estate).

4

LazyUpvote88 t1_j4ywc50 wrote

Wow. Fuck that. The rich are ruining this country and world with their unending quest for more money and power.

7

Ftheyankeei t1_j4xtdti wrote

Based on the last time it was proposed this legislation would require either two or three verbal commitments for the patient after thorough review of their mental health and in different time periods (there's a set amount of time they must wait before the process can even continue upon application). Most importantly a patient needs a diagnosis of a terminal illness with professionally diagnosed six months or less to live before they're even allowed to apply, significantly more strict than Canada's. Once the medication is administered the patient can choose not to take it; in Oregon, only 60% of people who complete the application process end up ending their lives.

Tiktok is gonna Tiktok, as a formerly suicidal teen I can imagine making a similar post when I was younger. I'm concerned for the kids but I'm not going to let them determine my views on policy without doing more research. And, as with any other system, the possibility of abuse in my view is miniscule compared to the overall benefits provided to people in pain. I can't answer for Canada but after reading the fascinating article you linked I am confident this negative response will make their policies more of an exception than the rule.

2