Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments

MC_Pterodactyl t1_j87e0fd wrote

Reply to comment by hlessi_newt in The Invisible Extinction (2022) - How the loss of our internal microbiome may be linked to the rise in obesity, childhood allergies and autism. [01:20:00] by cherrybounce

Autism is classified as a disorder, not as a disease or illness.

Diseases and disorders are not classified under the same criteria.

Gout is a disease despite having genetic links because it is a pathophysiological response the body undergoes in response to certain conditions.

Autism is a disorder as it is a base change to the fundamental behavior sets seen as baseline.

Calling autism a disease has negative connotations in multiple ways. For one, diseases are interpreted negatively by many. Secondly, they are often treatable such that symptoms can be managed to almost nothing or simply fully curable.

Autism is a state of being and something that will never go away. It can be partially managed, but it is a change at the basic level of how the mind processes. It is not something to shame, fear or hate, it is just a difference.

Calling it a disease carries potentially harmful subtext to a group of people that are already highly vulnerable and often victimized by multiple facets of society. Being precise and kind with language can make a small difference, and is worth the effort.

We should all strive for acceptance and understanding.

50

hlessi_newt t1_j87f60e wrote

i stand corrected and i am shamed for my lack of understanding.

20

MC_Pterodactyl t1_j87g65s wrote

You have the understanding now, the wisdom to be able to accept your mistake and the kindness to want to be part of the solution.

Those are lots of things to be proud of. If I’m going to be out here preaching acceptance, it’s got to acceptance of everyone. So that means mistakes can’t take away the inherent value you have as a person. You matter too in this massive, complex and ongoing conversation on a culture wide scale.

Thank you for being so open to feedback.

10

Five_Star_Amenities t1_j87k2ph wrote

Newt! Don't be so hard on yourself. We're all in a continual learning curve. Or at least those of us who keep striving to learn. Standing corrected is good enough, no need for shame.

8

Thebluefairie t1_j88kjxr wrote

You're fine! You don't know what you don't know. Whenever this comes up in conversation you can now help by letting someone else know.

1

insaneintheblain t1_j87r11q wrote

Calling it a disorder though implies that there is an 'order' - a norm against the traits are found to not suit. We can be understanding, but the system of diagnosis is responsible for furthering the idea that people with autism are 'abnormal', 'infirm' and should be treated differently.

We are all mad here - it's just that some traits of madness are more prized in an economic system.

5

Thebluefairie t1_j88kv5t wrote

Well when you're saying treated differently there's two different ways to be treated differently. Number one is to be looked down on. Thought of being less than someone else. Then there is treating someone differently as in giving them what they need to be able to perform what they need to do successfully. So no we don't need to be treated differently and look down upon. However we do need to be treated differently because our needs are different. And all autistic people are unique on what those specific needs are going to be able to be successful.

And saying we're all mad here is just like saying we're all a little bit autistic which we're not. And no we're not more diagnosed to make money off of us. A lot of us have a problem getting money so it's not like we can spend it

2

MC_Pterodactyl t1_j8912yv wrote

I would personally prefer different terminology than disorder myself. I do believe disorder makes it seem abnormal or aberrant. From all appearances, all forms of neurodivergence are just the expression of traits that change needs, the priorities of needs and the manner in which needs are satisfied coupled with a differing processing and perception.

I’m only out here advocating against using the term disease because that is the most harmful term. Once understanding and acceptance has increased enough, I’d still hope we can then overturn disorder. Perhaps syndrome would be fine?

Anyways, I do want some medical signifiers to the diagnosis, because neurodiverse individuals have broad needs that rarely get met by the system. So I still want it accepted as a medically protected state of being. Because it isn’t as simple as just treating us as the same as everyone. My needs are super different, and my priorities and goals are too.

It will be a long road, but egalitarian treatment will end up relying on acceptance, inclusion and having actual, real space in society for neurodiverse individuals designed around their needs rather than neurotypical needs. Among hundreds or thousands of other factors.

For now, just getting to the point where we all don’t have to mask so damn much and so strongly would be a good start.

2

Canadianingermany t1_j88gs30 wrote

And disorder doesn't carry similar negative connotations?

2

MC_Pterodactyl t1_j88wvrk wrote

It does. But disease implies a concerted effort to eradicate it or cure it. If my leg is diseased you either treat the cause of the disease or remove the leg before it causes damage to the rest of my body.

If someone has mad cow disease I need to be careful and possibly stay away from them.

A disorder absolutely is still a negative connotation. I have ADHD and I don’t feel disordered in my behavior at all. I do everything I need to do to be successful in society. People can tell I’m different and a little quirky, but I generally have far more positive interactions than negative ones.

I’d say from my view neurotypicals often engage in behavior patterns that are disordered in their goals at least as often as I am, and seem to seek out self destructive behavior patterns I would never engage in. But they are the dominant group, so I’m the one disordered.

I would definitely like a different term. I do not have any medical treatment for my ADHD and instead use diet, sleep, exercise and meditation to manage myself. So yes, I would prefer a new term besides disorder too, maybe syndrome.

My point is only that disease causes active harm in its use, it is a very bluntly negative, a 1/10 on the positivity scale. Disorder is a 4/10, it is negative, but does a softer, more implicit harm of separating groups of humans with one having the advantage and the other the disadvantage. It isn’t good, but I don’t wince hearing it.

0

Canadianingermany t1_j88zuy8 wrote

All of this is your subjective connotations.

For example, there are many types of disease and not all of them are communicable (eg. kidney disease).

ADHD - diet, sleep and excercise are considered a treatment or at least beneficial for some diseases (eg. Diabetes). So this is also a poor argument.

Disease diagnosis is not about "separating groups of humans with one having the advantage". It is about understanding what kind of support they need.

I don't see where the word "disease" causes any more harm than "disorder".

Assholes are going to asshole, regardless if the medical term used.

6

phantompenis2 t1_j88plo5 wrote

do you think people should stop saying alcoholism/addiction is a disease? you see that a lot

1