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Encripture t1_j8yf2tn wrote

This is directed by Amy Berg, who also made the excellent Deliver Us From Evil about a predatory pedophile Catholic priest.

As good as these films are, however, I can't help but gripe that they are more concerned with being good, dramatic movies than with really articulating the very methodical processes by which these predators set up and operate a conveyor belt of abuse that can run for years and years.

The Surviving R. Kelly series is a valuable addition on the subject and, I think, a longer, deeper look at how routines of outrageous abuse can be constructed, even without the advantages of a pre-existing bureaucratic, organizational structures like a movie studio or a church.

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Malt___Disney t1_j8yw4oj wrote

Deliver Us From Evil is an unforgettable film. For a bit more of the systemic insight I feel like Spotlight did a decent job at scratching that itch.

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can-it-getbetter t1_j909sil wrote

The movie Spotlight fucked me up. I knew what it was about, and thought I knew the history. But then they post the story and they’re all nervous thinking their paper is going to get shut down-but they don’t. Then the calls start coming in and they’re like “oh shit here we go-“ but all the calls are from other victims saying that it happened to them too… And no one cared. I can never stop thinking about that ending.

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jaffacake00 t1_j904nc1 wrote

I think Leaving Neverland was a great example of pacing and structuring a story to show how children and even whole families can be slowly groomed using money, fame, guilt, naivety etc until anyone can start questioning themselves and acting against their own best interests.

Edit: doco title

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TheGuv69 t1_j90hqrb wrote

And yet so so many are in denial about him.....

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butt_dance t1_j90qp0j wrote

Like a ton of people on Reddit….”he was found not guilty!”. Like, so fucking what? Just because something couldn’t be proved beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of law doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. This is especially true in child sexual abuse cases, where’s it’s notoriously difficult to get convictions. I feel so bad for these men, whom people are saying lied for money. It’s very courageous of them to speak their truth in the face of that shit. We need a #MeToo movement more specifically centered on victims of childhood sexual abuse. Too many people still don’t believe children, and too many sexual abusers are still able to use that to get away with it. “He’s/she’s a kid- they make stuff up a lot.”

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416warlok t1_j915vcc wrote

I mentioned Leaving Neverland in an askreddit thread last week. First of all, anyone who thinks a very powerful and wealthy celebrity in his mid forties (and before) actually saught out young boys to share his bed with "bEaUcauSE He dIDn'T hAvE A ChILDhooD!" need to pull thier head out of thier ass. I don't give a fuck if he was found not guilty in court, as the rich elite often get away with thier crimes.

Some other redditor was downvoting me and arguing on MJ's behalf, and when I looked at her post history, it was literally all posts on MJ related subreddits and arguing his innocence. Like a literal pro Michael shill account basically. Wild stuff.

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FlutterGoddess t1_j917dz4 wrote

People defending MJ cuz he is just an abused kid himself cuz he didn’t have a childhood. Well MJ didn’t have a problem negotiating a bad ass record deal or befriending Paul McCartney then buying the rights to the Beatles music portfolio. Or how about the 1st time you cashed someone out for being too friendly with their child, don’t you think you’d never be alone again without a parent present?

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Razakel t1_j91dfl1 wrote

People's eyes were blinded because MJ was one of the biggest pop stars in the world.

I think he was a paedophile, in the very literal sense - he loved children, and certainly behaved inappropriately around them. But I'm not convinced he raped any.

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lovekillseveryone t1_j91wzdt wrote

I defend Michael because if you put the work in and do the research. you find that none of it makes sense. Also, the people that actually knew michael, family, friends, and business associates, pretty much everyone....not one person thinks he was guilty? How does that happen ?

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JamaicaNoFap t1_j92jsfz wrote

That’s absolutely untrue. Many people who were close with him believe he did it. His own mother knew back in the early 80s. His sister Latoya came out and accused him in the 90s and was vilified for it. The court documents listing what was found in Neverland is enough evidence to prove he had sexual interest in young people and had many many grooming materials at hand as well as stained children’s underwear and bloodstained sheets. Face facts

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lovekillseveryone t1_j94hcki wrote

That is all untrue and You have no facts to back any of that up.

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JamaicaNoFap t1_j94hk3t wrote

You can block it out all you want but I encourage you to open your eyes. You’ve been groomed and manipulated by a masterful showman and his enormous and powerful estate

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lovekillseveryone t1_j94wu47 wrote

Actually You have been groomed and manipulated to believe non facts . Please do the research you'll be surprised.

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JamaicaNoFap t1_j94hpwc wrote

https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/michael-jacksons-mum-katherine-knew-13905133.amp

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JamaicaNoFap t1_j94hrg2 wrote

I dare you to go read the evidence files from what they found at the Neverland raid. It’s disgusting.

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lovekillseveryone t1_j94hqj6 wrote

Except for the Latoya thing but she has retracted that because she was part of an abusive marriage at the time and her partner ran it ...anyway you can read her book it's all there.

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butt_dance t1_j94q0jw wrote

The psychology behind people going to such lengths to defend a dead celebrity they’ve never met for an issue that has exactly zero impact on their own life is very interesting. Unless it’s their own issues compelling them to do so. Which I have a feeling is often a contributing factor with stuff related to child sexual abuse. It just really opens your eyes when so many people will chose to believe and defend a dead (but still with a very powerful estate) celebrity over two men who say they were victims of this celebrity. Two men who appear to still be suffering a great deal as a result of their trauma. As a stranger to all involved in the case, what is the harm in believing them? There isn’t any. So why do so many people work so hard at not believing them? Because there is a great deal of harm in sending the message that victims of sexual abuse shouldn’t tell their story.

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416warlok t1_j98fy4r wrote

And obviously documentary films, as a rule, show various biases and there have been many, many docs that play pretty hard and loose with the facts of any given subject. That being said, I don't know how anyone can sit through the testimony of the two men in Leaving Neverland, and think they are lying. Like it's so hard to watch them tearfully recount every excruciating detail of their rapes, and like wow people think they are acting? Like to what end? To achieve some sort of fame or noteriety for being rape vicitms? Pretty sick if you ask me. MJ was 100% a pedophile who used his fame, money, and power to groom and rape multiple children. Fuck him.

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WildWook t1_j91rag6 wrote

Theyre concerned with being good because they want people to actually watch and discuss them. Information in its purest format is boring to most people. Better to package it in a digestible manner than to present a power point presentation.

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