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hvgotcodes t1_jb3611d wrote

Isn’t this known, that AI image recognition is incredibly accurate? Hopefully will expand access to health care, lower costs, and aid early detection for many or all forms of cancer.

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Darryl_Lict t1_jb49tuz wrote

I thought that computer recognition of dangerous cancers was superior to human doctors years ago. Have the AI do the initial recognition then have a human doctor confirm it.

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ch4m3le0n t1_jb4b4ia wrote

Spoiler, it's not any more accurate than a rookie radiologist.

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DragonflyGrrl t1_jb6h4kl wrote

>Another [doctor] told the Times he was shocked at how effective the AI programs were after he presented the software with some of the most difficult cases of his career — including instances in which other radiologists had missed signs of cancer in a scan — and the program correctly identified the cancer every time.

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ch4m3le0n t1_jb9262z wrote

This is purely anecdotal on the doctors behalf. There are companies like Annalise.ai which are using hundreds of radiologists to train models for just one type of cancer, and the best they can do is sanity check, so far. This is likely one of those cases. There is a role for AI in this process, but it still requires a radiologist to interpret.

The bigger issue than finding cancers you missed is actually false positives, finding cancers that aren't really there. Thats a much harder problem. Imagine having to get a breast biopsy for a cancer that doesn't exist. That's the state of the art today.

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FunnyMathematician77 t1_jb45cq5 wrote

I remember hearing about some issue with cancer recognizing AI. The AI was trained to associate a "ruler" with cancerous growth, because images of malignant tumors usually have some scale ruler thing while benign ones don't I guess. I don't know how accurate that is, but it does seem possible.

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Dartiboi t1_jb45n29 wrote

Yeah that would definitely happen if you didn’t remove that from the image. It’s a pretty simple fix though.

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[deleted] t1_jb47r6g wrote

Yeah most major tech companies are researching this stuff.

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pinkfootthegoose t1_jb72vqc wrote

lower costs.. hahahahahahahahaha.

that's not how health care works when people are the revenue source and not the customer.

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P_Griffin2 t1_jb4ry7x wrote

I Imagine AI will replace doctors completely within a decade or two.

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Norseviking4 t1_jb7jq98 wrote

I look forwars to ai and machines taking over as much as possible of healthcare. AI that is never tired, never have a bad day, never distracted would be a huge comfort to me.

I really dont trust people (i have had several bad experiences with bad doctors)

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Current_Side_4024 t1_jb36s06 wrote

Yea I’m pretty sure we could replace all that work with AI tomorrow and would save millions of lives…but doctors gotta have McMansions so we’re gonna take twenty years to make the transition instead

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-Ch4s3- t1_jb3t2nx wrote

I used to work along side someone who worked on this kind of problem. The issues was then and probably still is that there isn’t enough good and labeled training data. You can’t just hoover up every breast cancer image in the world, they’re locked away on servers in hospital basements and belong to the patients (at least in the US) and every country has different laws about using this stuff for research, much less a commercial system. Some national health services have tried this with their own data and results have so far been unimpressive.

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MD_House t1_jb47tgk wrote

That is correct, I was part of a team using a CNN to predict survival days of glioma patients but getting data is really really hard. And we also didn't get the amount of images we actually wanted.

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seriousbeef t1_jb3x390 wrote

Tech guru Vinod Khosla of Sun Microsystems has said that radiologists will be obsolete in 5 years.

Unfortunately that was more than 5 years ago and he was so incredibly wrong it is hilarious. People with no idea what radiologists actually do and just how complex medical imaging interpretation is love to jump to the conclusion that AI is automatically better. One day I’m sure it could be but it will be a while longer. Until then it will augment us and make us better at our jobs like this example in breast imaging.

Vinod doubled down in 2019 and said any radiologist still practicing in 10 years will be killling patients every day which is hilarious because I just don’t do that much work. I would kill someone once a month at most.

Edit: the other thing is all these companies charge for their service. It all costs money. AI isn’t free.

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