ForHidingSquirrels OP t1_is39je5 wrote
I’ve been wondering why battery manufacturers have been moving to the southeast other than cheap labor. Eventually it’ll be because of supply chain benefits. Access to steel, maybe mining, good highways, well priced electricity, and of course state regulations. Anyone have real information on this?
irishman13 t1_is3gwxd wrote
Kentucky, Ohio, and Tennessee are already established automotive supplier bases.
ForHidingSquirrels OP t1_is3i63v wrote
Good point, supply chain benefits are probably the main benefit
GoodOmens t1_is48cwb wrote
SK America in GA supplies to VW (id.4) in Chattanooga and Ford in Michigan (but soon TN)
sonofagunn t1_is3odz4 wrote
The article mentions that shipping heavy batteries is expensive so most of the battery factories are planning to be located near the automotive factories.
Numismatists t1_is4a31y wrote
*Arms factories.
AbeWasHereAgain t1_is42x7u wrote
state regulations = we will let them pollute the living fuck out of the area.
solardeveloper t1_is5ssec wrote
I hate so much that garbage takes like this get so many upvotes.
Can't be because of supply chains, minimizing freight costs or other factors that greatly reduce cost to you the consumer. No, just "they let them pollute"
Jfc
Hampsterman82 t1_is5wkul wrote
Bruh.... There's truth to it. Look at rare earth refining. China is no where near a leader in cutting edge tech but they do it all cause it's a bitterly polluting process and in china you can just hellscape a lake with the chemical and heavy element waste.
OldeHickory t1_is5x6cw wrote
The southeast has a history of local politicians being ridiculously corrupt. The lack of regulations is definitely a factor. Why follow CEQA when you can just put your factory in Georgia?
solardeveloper t1_is6it15 wrote
The fact that you cite CEQA demonstrates my point. CEQA is the use of environmentalism to impose NIMBY land use restrictions via plausibly deniable tactics like making development costs so high even for compliant projects that they end up not being built. Fundamentally, its a tool to destroy the economics for even good faith development so as little as possible gets built.
Congrats, we have CEQA in CA. And by far the coubtry's highest working homeless population because manufacturing and many other blue collar jobs don't pay well enough to afford housing out here.
And the irony is the same set of people treating CEQA as a victory are crying about the high cost per Watt hour of batteries, not putting 2 and 2 together about how value chain and supply chain costs are what drive cost of the end product. Due to our special fuel requirements, geographic location relative to existing manufacturing infrastructure and centers, and the lack of housing affordability for truckers, CA is poorly positioned to retain manufacturing of resource intensive items like batteries even without CEQA.
OldeHickory t1_is6jdvy wrote
Lmao guy sees a chance to bash California at any cost. Saying that environmental laws are just for rich nimbys is classic right wing propaganda. They would like to remove section 106, NEPA, and Section 4(f) if they could. They will bash any environmental law claiming it is just for the rich. Such a joke. Spill your propaganda elsewhere please.
solardeveloper t1_isak8ai wrote
I own property in CA and directly benefit economically from CEQA and Prop 13. You need to up your game - not every critique of policy in CA is "right wing" propaganda, and shows how little grasp of actual business and housing development environment here that that's your only response.
If you want to dive deeper into how CEQA is problematic, have a read. Its from the Atlantic, the famously right wing publication (sarcasm)
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/03/signature-environmental-law-hurts-housing/618264/
OldeHickory t1_isaljye wrote
I don’t care lmao. I work in environmental compliance and I hate how weak GEPA is, written by developers and engineering firms as a rubber stamp for whatever they want to do as long as they can avoid triggering federal laws. It’s my livelihood. I am pro CEQA and any other state environmental law with actual teeth. Go on now
Bananaman60056 t1_is7wfaw wrote
So does New York, Illinois, and California.
Lanky-Detail3380 t1_is6fcaz wrote
You would be surprised how little they are allowed. It will probably change but for now Tennessee is fairly serious about environment quality.
AbeWasHereAgain t1_is6fg9o wrote
Yeah, sure they are.
HiCanIPetYourCat t1_is4gdn0 wrote
Huge stupid labor force
Stupid government
Acceptance of low wages
The least valuable land in the country
That’s why all plants are built there. It’s a whipped society happy to live in squalor for peanuts and they relentlessly elect sociopaths that lip service their racism while funneling all of their productivity out.
This is why my company’s high paid R&D facility is in California, because talent is willing to live here, and manufacturing is in the south- because those people are fully broke horses ready to be ridden.
I hate all of this but that’s the reality of US manufacturing.
AdmiralJTKirk t1_is4hqnz wrote
Born in the south, lived in CA among other places. Can confirm without reservation.
quettil t1_is4r7d4 wrote
This is what Democrats think of the working class and wonder why they vote Republican.
Toggiz t1_is5qsqs wrote
The working class doesn’t vote Republican. The white working class does. Wonder why they split like that?
solardeveloper t1_is5tpog wrote
Bro, a considerable % of hispanic and black working class voted republican in the last election.
And a majority of the non-urban population period vote Republican.
Having lived in one such area for all of my childhood, the urban coastal democrat elitism is a huge factor.
One major reason how the demonized (by the left) Manchin was able to get the IRA passed were the provisions he put in around bonus tax credits for things like solar in areas where coal industry was shutting down or where rural unemployment was extremely high. Because its very apparent that Dems generally don't give a shit about the people who work in those industries who will lose jobs in the green transition and have done nothing to help them grow in the new economy.
And this has been an issue for Dems and especially progressives for a while now.
Toggiz t1_is5wisw wrote
Hillary had an entire plan for how to help coal workers and other dying industries retrain and transition. Trump said he’d make coal great again with no plan.
I’m not saying there isn’t resentment towards city folk, there obviously is. But Democrats actually have policies to try and help while Republicans just take away support for rural communities and shove it in rich peoples pockets.
Democrats are losing the messaging war despite taking the plight of rural Americans more seriously than Republicans.
Bananaman60056 t1_is7xppl wrote
The soft racism of low expectations. Dems are, and have always been the real racists.
Toggiz t1_is82rcv wrote
LOL. If we try to help it’s racist, if we don’t we are ignoring rural America. Good to know.
Bananaman60056 t1_is83d0k wrote
The path to hell is paved with good intentions. Your "help" is not helping. It has had a negative impact. When was the last time you heard a Dem tell a black person that they can be successful, that they can achieve the American dream and reach the highest echelon of power?
Get educated, work hard, stay focused, don't ever give up?
That is not ever their message.
Why?
HiCanIPetYourCat t1_is817zs wrote
I know right? So many confederate flags and nazi flags and KKK members at Clinton events! Black people in congress are 98% dem and black folks in general are 95% Dem but surely it’s them being racist against themselves and not the poor innocent conservative rural whites, with their long history of racial tolerance!
What an absolute joke
Bananaman60056 t1_is81ygt wrote
You are talking about an infinitesimally small group of people that in no way represents conservatives. Its a straw man argument. All liberals are communists, or neofascists right? When you want to be serious start over.
[deleted] t1_is82dtz wrote
[removed]
Bananaman60056 t1_is83io2 wrote
She's a despicable person that hates America.
HiCanIPetYourCat t1_is84682 wrote
She’s one of the most loved, popular human beings on the planet. The figureheads leading the GOP are all some of the most detested. I don’t remember Michelle Obama operating fake charities and shit talking vets and stealing classified documents while kissing Putin’s ass and then trying to overthrow democracy to install herself dictator... You have a fucked up definition of what hating America is.
You’re a fully radicalized extremist existing in a propaganda bubble of pure bullshit. You’re totally immune to reality, so, have fun with that. This exchange is clearly useless.
Bananaman60056 t1_is84e6j wrote
"All this for a flag" she's garbage.
Littleman88 t1_is6qhbk wrote
And those rural Americans spat back in the Democrats' faces because they were told to by the Republicans or simply because they weren't Republicans. Ruralites are looking for an easy out or to at least to stay in their comfort zone (like mining and huffing coal.)
Dems can only lead them to water, but if they refuse to drink because a snake told them the water is poisoned, then there's nothing left to do but watch them take to their own graves.
And yes, Democrats/lefties are awful with messaging and refuse to ever consider changing it when it's pointed out. Much less embarrassing to hide behind some morality card and insist their critics are racist/sexist assholes for suggesting their advertising game needs improvement.
HiCanIPetYourCat t1_is61w93 wrote
Lol. That “elitism” is called actually paying attention to policy. The Republicans literally do not even have a platform anymore. Their 2020 platform was “whatever Trump says”. That’s a joke. It’s a white grievance party at this point and nothing more. They aren’t taken seriously because there is nothing to take seriously.
And only 8% of black people voted for Trump 🙄
wgc123 t1_is6epq7 wrote
> Manchin was able to get the IRA passed were the provisions he put in around bonus tax credits for things like solar
Wasn’t that one of the main points of the bill he was blocking? Manchin gets credit for allowing cutting off environmental review for infrastructure products, especially that new gas pipeline he’s trying to push, and he gets credit for blocking energy portfolios to help push renewables, and credit for blocking increased taxes on polluting industries
wgc123 t1_is6fr9t wrote
> Having lived in one such area for all of my childhood, the urban coastal democrat elitism is a huge factor.
I do remember this existing where I grew up in a rural area as well. However now that I’m an “urban coastal democrat elitist”, I can’t for the life of me understand how it ever made sense. The only factors I can see is that I was young and naive, and we had limited and biased news sources. I imagine there was resentment over the focus on things that were not relevant to us, but only the cities, however that’s not an excuse for not considering facts or ideas based on their merit
BoringBob84 t1_is82q6f wrote
I grew up in a rural area, and the rural elitism towards "city slickers" was *much* worse than the urban elitism that I see now in the urban area where I live.
It is all about perception. Right-wing outrage media muckrakers are making bank by yanking the chains of rural and working class people - keeping them afraid and angry to the point that they vote against their own best interests.
Bananaman60056 t1_is7xdor wrote
Because the dems love to keep minorities dependent on government. They are the modern day plantation owners. Promise free shit, tell them they're victims, pretend they're not smart enough to get I.D.s among a million other low expectations of them.
HiCanIPetYourCat t1_is60pxl wrote
This is true but not in the way you think lol. A lot of the white working class is desperate to be lied to that all of their problems are because of people like me telling them the truth, and dirty brown/black/gay/jewish/media/elites etc all plotting to get them. That’s where the stupid part comes in. It’s pathetic, when the actual problem is income inequality. The middle class died when wage increases were decoupled from productivity increases in the Regan era, and that sure as hell wasn’t the fault of progressives or Mexicans.
Trump’s cult are addicted to hate and don’t give a single fuck about policy or reality in general, humoring their fragile feelings is pointless. The only way to help them is to work around them.
Bananaman60056 t1_is7y3zl wrote
No, we expect the black, brown, gay people to use their access to education, coupled with hard work, to achieve the American dream. You don't have those same expectations. Your way leads to fatherless households, urban decay, and despair.
HiCanIPetYourCat t1_is7zfe3 wrote
Lol what 100 octane dogshit😂
Equal access to education and healthcare for everyone are the entire foundational points of progressivism. Thanks for doing a live performance of how all you run on is hate though I guess. Did you even read that last sentence of mental illness before you hit post or is the indoctrination so deep that the propaganda just happens no matter how stupid it makes you sound?
Building schools in the neighborhoods that white supremacy waged war on for decades and destroyed doesn’t lead to broken homes and urban decay you utter clown, white conservatives did that with redlining and the drug war and by denying them access to transit and jobs and militant over policing.
Bananaman60056 t1_is814r2 wrote
Sure thing. Dems are the people you're talking about. They have been on the wrong side since before Lincoln. They destroyed the inner cities, were against the black vote, and the civil rights act. I live in Chicago, CPS teachers get paid more than any large district in America, and the return is abysmal education for their students. Face it, Dem rule is a failure in cities. They have destroyed the safety and quality of life in almost every large city in America. Their ideas are garbage.
HiCanIPetYourCat t1_is81iwn wrote
Believe it or not, we’re talking about today and progressives. Not conservative Dems of 50+ years ago that all flipped to Republicans after Dems passed civil rights legislation. That’s how obviously stupid your argument is. Current Republicans are so overtly intolerant that the entire reason they became Republicans was out of hatred for black people. The southeast was deep blue until then. It doesn’t take a 6th grade level education to understand what changed.
If your dumbfuck propaganda needs a time machine and a complete absence of critical thinking ability or history education to work, it might be time to accept that you’re just full of shit.
Bananaman60056 t1_is827k3 wrote
Dude, they never flipped anywhere, they just changed tactics and you sheeple follow along nodding and drooling. FYI, we love all races, we want them to succeed, not acquiesce, and accept the garbage the progress say will help them. Dems have been promising them shit for 60 years and their situations have not improved much at all. Dem ideas suck and progressives are fucking insane.
HiCanIPetYourCat t1_is82vwl wrote
So you’re denying the kindergarten level easy to understand differences between these maps and the timing of the change?
https://medium.com/age-of-awareness/electoral-map-history-clears-all-doubt-f94d5397b415
You live in an utter fantasy
Bananaman60056 t1_is83wm5 wrote
I really don't care where people live and how they vote. My opinion is that the south got smarter and the masses in large cities bought the bullshit the dems were selling even as their cities were turning into corrupt dem run cesspools.
HiCanIPetYourCat t1_is84o59 wrote
The south ranks at the bottom of every measurable metric from health to education to economic output. The blue states are all at the top.
Objectively. Consistently.
Again, everything you’re saying is comically easy to disprove.
Bananaman60056 t1_is85ny1 wrote
Really, then why are people fleeing the blue states? You people are delusional. Illinois lost a Representative, New York lost a Representative, Cali, made up for the outbound immigration by counting the millions of undocumented immigrants that have moved there. The southern states are expanding. Many are rural. Farming is a major reason why they don't have the economic might of large blue states. If they charged you $5 for a potato or ear of corn it would be different. They feed all the rats that love congested cities.
HiCanIPetYourCat t1_is85rzp wrote
We aren’t, you believe bullshit.
Bananaman60056 t1_is85zbx wrote
The house of representatives begs to differ. Show the states that lost representatives then come back and apologize.
HiCanIPetYourCat t1_is8mcno wrote
You legitimately don’t understand anything at all.
It’s almost impressive and sure as hell not wasting time explaining to you. Google house apportionment then apologize clown
Bananaman60056 t1_is8n26h wrote
The loss of how many residents does it take to lose a Representative? You really aren't the sharpest tool in the drawer are you?
HiCanIPetYourCat t1_is8ndo7 wrote
You’re the living embodiment of Dunning Kruger.
You obviously didn’t look it up because you still clearly don’t know what you’re talking about and I don’t owe your neutron star dense ass an education. Blame your parents for ending up this way.
Bananaman60056 t1_is8obb6 wrote
HiCanIPetYourCat t1_is8ooag wrote
You have a literal forcefield against educating yourself.
Bananaman60056 t1_is8qwuc wrote
It's called the truth. Apportionment is based on population. All the formulas used come down to a states population in the most current census. Texas gained 2 seats, Florida, Colorado, North Carolina, Oregon gained a seat. Cali, Illinois, New York, Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Michigan, and Ohio, lost a seat.
HiCanIPetYourCat t1_is8ud9a wrote
You’re so close to understanding
Bananaman60056 t1_is8vef1 wrote
Lol, learn mathematics.
HiCanIPetYourCat t1_is8vm07 wrote
I want to ruin it and expose how fucking utterly uneducated you are again but I’m not going to.
It’s more fun knowing that you know something’s wrong but aren’t smart enough to figure out what.
I’m blocking you now! Ta ta!
iwoketoanightmare t1_is5nlgz wrote
But deep down, is any of it false? Open your eyes.
King_in-the_North t1_is61fj8 wrote
You do realize millions more people have voted democrat than republicans in every presidential election for the last 20 years correct?
Who are these democrats that aren’t working class that somehow significantly outnumber those great working class republicans you hold so dear?
RedCascadian t1_ishkh2b wrote
This is what many of us think of large portions of the white, southern working class.
I'm a white working class guy in the PNW. I'm also a progressive and am organizing a union in an Amazon warehouse.
[deleted] t1_isi805q wrote
You rock! Unions are what will save this country. Otherwise, we will regress to feudalism.
RedCascadian t1_isibixq wrote
Thanks! Yeah management seems nervous after rhe "raise" we got pissed a lot of folks off.
innofuel t1_is4xl2m wrote
but California cannot supply poor people a damn roof.
Look at how many working homeless in California vs TN/AR/KY. When you are poor in US your choices are between being a broke horse and a street camper.
ZeePirate t1_is53ugx wrote
I’d imagine the overall poverty levels of AR and KY are higher.
innofuel t1_is55yyi wrote
Federal poverty line is $26,500 for a family of 4. Outside of fancy suburbs, you can easily buy a 3BR in most small town and inner city areas of TN/AR/KY paying 800 per month on mortgage, but $26500 a year not even enough for rent anywhere in CA.
If you consider rent, the actual poverty line in CA should be $50000 for 4, which will put CA's poverty rate to the same level with TN/AR/KY.
solardeveloper t1_is5uiix wrote
>That’s why all plants are built there
That and its expensive as fuck to freight or ship raw materials from factories already on the gulf/Ohio river to California and then ship/freight back to market. CA's special snowflake fuel standards and lack of affordability for truckers makes it economically non-viable to manufacture in the state. Nothing to do with "broken" workforce as manufacturing labor in PA, OH, AL, etc are unionized too. And can actually afford housing in those places
But instead of looking at actual supply chain costs or finances, we can lean into the CA superiority complex narrative and ignore the fact that the state has steadily pushed away high paying manufacturing/fabrication jobs and is essentially a specialty R&D zone at this stage.
And I say this as someone living comfortably in Marin, so not speaking out of some kind of sour grapes.
wgc123 t1_is6g9km wrote
Yeah, you might want to actually look at how big an economy they have based on manufacturing and agriculture
georgejettson t1_is56cqg wrote
Lol California has been turned into a shit hole by idiots like you
HiCanIPetYourCat t1_is5zbzk wrote
California is the richest, most productive state in the country whether that hurts your fee fees or not.
bamboozled_bubbles t1_is3h451 wrote
The old steel (now rust) belt? PA, OH, MI?
dstar-dstar t1_is3j1n7 wrote
Water, climate, cheap labor
MachineGoat t1_is5gh87 wrote
And unions. This why OP said Southeast.
Pac_Eddy t1_is3ffw3 wrote
Texas has terrible electricity prices when it gets cold.
Jeramus t1_is3ghfl wrote
Texas isn't southeast.
Pac_Eddy t1_is3hh9b wrote
I realize that. But it does have a giga factory. Take a look at the linked article.
germanmojo t1_is42guj wrote
They're also topping that factory with solar panels.
[deleted] t1_is5glvf wrote
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Traevia t1_is4l8dc wrote
That area has a lot of the prime test plants of many of the manufacturers. The band across Michigan is just as relevant. This is the main manufacturing area of Michigan where access to quality talent is very very easy with a lot of plants nearby.
For the Kentucky/Tennessee border area, look up automotive plants in the area. It is a major production area for manufacturers.
Going by traditional factors:
Transportation- you are close to current factories
Costs - these areas are fairly reasonable and have strong power grids
Talent - there are plenty of experienced workers in these areas
Resources - really isn't as relevant as many are sourced globally
pete003 t1_is4cnyk wrote
Right to work states no unions allowed- look at all the European car plants. So much easier to adjust the workforce.
OuidOuigi t1_is5egp1 wrote
Yeah because UAW doesn't exist?
Everyone that worked here for GM was in the union. Amazes me how people will just make up whatever without the slightest bit of research.
solardeveloper t1_is5sy75 wrote
They like to cry about lack of solutions, but then shoot down every proposed solution because they all fail to meet some made up moral purity test.
Lanky-Detail3380 t1_is6fnka wrote
Fuck, you should see the anarchy at the workers fighting and in revolt when they don't like it at VW
Spaceman-Spiff t1_is3l8hf wrote
Because long term it’s not feasible to run a factory out west? Plus the south east is Republican run states that are much more tax friendly to corporations and rich people.
Ok_Communication5221 t1_is3rnag wrote
My wife’s family is from West Tennessee. Ford bought 3500 acres for Ford Blue Oval. It’s just far enough East of Memphis to be more property cheap but still very close to FedEx and right off Interstate 40 and 50 miles from the Mississippi River as well as close to BNSF Intermodal. My understanding is this will be a combo battery and F-150 Lightning factory. Tennessee has very “company” friendly labor laws which is why Nissan and VW have auto plants there. Jim Farley is very bold taking on UAW and their dealership network simultaneously.
kajunkennyg t1_is3f70h wrote
What state?
wgc123 t1_is6d6a8 wrote
I see one in NY! It had previously been an IBM town until They switched to a services model and the town has been kind of depressed since they left. However a lasting legacy was a pretty good tech school. A gigafactory is located here because it’s based on research/patents from Binghamton University plus is now a lower cost of living area.
Im sure they haven’t forgotten a legacy of pollution from early IBM days and the much earlier leather and other manufacturing, and will not accept that again. My childhood had too much hazardous waste cleanup from 100+ years ago and there will still be people who remember that
[deleted] t1_is6k376 wrote
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