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grambell789 t1_iv4z5yo wrote

Reply to comment by plummbob in As long as incentives are misaligned, it's improbable to achieve change by tawhuac

I agree but hasn't it been a problem where it's been implemented so far? Main problem I hear is inelastic demand. There is no good alternative for transportation fuel which hits a lot of working class hard, although I'm not sure what rebates have been attempted for them.

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plummbob t1_iv4zk5m wrote

If demand for carbon really is inelastic, then that means climate change is efficient, welfare maximizing outcome. And it would mean any alternative is more costly and welfare reducing. Otherwise demand wouldn't be inelastic. But there are clearly ways in which firms can reduce their carbon consumption.

And yeah, +dividend reduces any concerns over progressive taxation.

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grambell789 t1_iv5epjd wrote

pretty much yes. a group of people feel they will lose their jobs and starve to death now vs children die of heat stroke in the future. basically a retstructuring of the economy to make less carbon means some people are bigger loser while some are gainers. and the people who lose the most are very vocal about it.

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ItsAConspiracy t1_iv54kcy wrote

The most prominent idea is fee-and-dividend. Charge a fixed fee per ton of carbon, and distribute all the money to residents. Everybody gets the same amount. If you emit less carbon than average, you come out ahead.

This way everybody has an incentive to conserve what they can, but most people end up with more money in their pockets. The more important aspect is that all our industries get a massive incentive to decarbonize.

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grambell789 t1_iv5e851 wrote

the problem, i think in canada and france, were people in heavily tranportation related work had no alternative way to do transportation except making carbon. that means less transportation is produced and consumed which means they lose their jobs and the checks they got didn't make up for that. I think thats it. I need to look for youtube videos that go into it some more.

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ItsAConspiracy t1_iv5gsml wrote

Transitioning to a zero-carbon economy would be a huge change in how we physically do things. I don't think there's any way to do that without some people losing their current jobs. The upside is that civilization doesn't collapse into chaos.

Might be reasonable to put some extra money towards helping out particular groups like that, though.

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