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sirzoop t1_j1z6o8b wrote

No need to prove you wrong. You are correct. Crypto is only used for money laundering, ponzi schemes and pump and dump schemes. I have yet to find a single other use case over the last 5 years

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babygrenade t1_j1z9nht wrote

I've used bitcoin to transfer to/receive payouts from my offshore sportsbook. Other options were more expensive or slower (like waiting for them to mail me a check).

Basically it works as a way to transfer value electronically where there aren't established frameworks or middle-men. Though as online services continue to mature - those edge cases where crypto makes sense will be fewer and fewer.

Remittances are often touted as a use case for crypto as sending cash across borders and different financial systems (especially when one of those happens to be in the third world) is not straightforward. Traditional options, like western union are slow and expensive. However centralized services are also trying to make that remittances faster and cheaper and it's hard to imagine most people aren't going to prefer a service with a support number you can call over a system where you're basically on your own when significant amounts of money are involved.

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[deleted] t1_j1za6nj wrote

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Potential-Ad1618 t1_j1zazqu wrote

Yeah pay 5% transaction fees and wait 3 bank days lol

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[deleted] t1_j1zb8aa wrote

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Potential-Ad1618 t1_j1zc06q wrote

You are fortunate enough to never have to wire money. A top 10%-er globally

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sirzoop t1_j1zcax2 wrote

I actually have wired money in the past. The fee is a flat $20 at Chase.

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Potential-Ad1618 t1_j1zdstj wrote

Currency conversion 20 basis points lol The fees on this site are outrageous

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Potential-Ad1618 t1_j1zcg3x wrote

Lol $20 when a Bitcoin transaction costs 20 cents

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[deleted] t1_j1zd9uz wrote

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Potential-Ad1618 t1_j1zdggs wrote

Post the link let’s see. I’ve never spent more than 50 cents on over 100+ transactions across multiple years

Edit: 50 cents per transaction as a max

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[deleted] t1_j1zeacb wrote

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Potential-Ad1618 t1_j1zefdx wrote

Hahahhahaha did you really just say the massive spike was the average. Omg dude

Anyone reading this please go read this then click the link to see how he created this narrative

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[deleted] t1_j1zewy7 wrote

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Potential-Ad1618 t1_j1zfbgu wrote

That was a result of China cracking down on mining which lowered the hash rate

Those mines have sense rebounded

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babygrenade t1_j1zb4lw wrote

Offshore sportsbook and remittances?

The value add (for me at least) with my sportsbook was that it's cheaper than other options (credit card has a 9.75% fee, echeck has a 4.5% fee) and faster than the only other free option for payouts - waiting for a check. Bitcoin has no fee other than a network transaction fee and goes through in 10 - 30 minutes.

For remittances - It's faster and cheaper than maybe a traditional service like Western Union, but definitely not some of the newer services, like the one I linked.

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sirzoop t1_j1zbtpq wrote

>Offshore sportsbook

It uhhh....sounds like you are trying to justify money laundering. Why are you using an offshore sportsbook that makes it overly complicated to deposit USD?

>For remittances - It's faster and cheaper than maybe a traditional service like Western Union, but definitely not some of the newer services, like the one I linked.

The alternative is just sending them fiat currency. If they are able to set up a crypto wallet they are able to set up an online bank account and accept payment. I'd argue this would be cheaper than paying gas fees and it only takes 1 day to transfer fiat currencies.

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Thirdwhirly t1_j1zcm82 wrote

Totally different. He’s just avoiding taxes and fees. /s

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babygrenade t1_j1zcmnx wrote

How is using a sportsbook that happens to be in another country anything like money laundering?

There also aren't US based online sportsbooks available in my state and there certainly weren't 10 years ago when I first started betting with this sportsbook.

>I'd argue this would be cheaper than paying gas fees and it only takes 1 day to transfer fiat currencies.

Have you ever sent a bank wire? They take a day to several days to clear. International takes longer.

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mnyc86 t1_j1zdg89 wrote

If it’s not available in your state it’s also illegal to do offshore

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sirzoop t1_j1zcw05 wrote

>How is using a sportsbook that happens to be in another country anything like money laundering?

Because it is illegal in the state you are in and you are trying to avoid the regulations?

>There also aren't US based online sportsbooks available in my state and there certainly weren't 10 years ago when I first started betting with this sportsbook.

See above

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babygrenade t1_j1ze6kp wrote

Money laundering is specifically trying to obfuscate the source of money. So not at all the scenario here.

According to state law it's illegal to operate games of chance in my state, so I'm placing bets outside of my state.

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sirzoop t1_j1zegtk wrote

So you are literally admitting that you are breaking the law, trying to get around the regulations by using cryptocurrency and then trying to argue its not money laundering?

Bro....this isn't the type of stuff you should publicly admit to online.....

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babygrenade t1_j1zfn5r wrote

I'm clearly admitting to avoiding state gambling regulations. That doesn't make it money laundering. At no point is the source of money hidden.

If I ever actually won enough to report it in my taxes - I would report it in my taxes just like if I had gone to vegas and won. If I really win big and bring home $10k+ my bank will report the deposit anyway.

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resumethrowaway222 t1_j1zci7h wrote

Tell me you don't know what money laundering is

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sirzoop t1_j1zd3dk wrote

Money laundering is the process of concealing the origin of money, obtained from illicit activities such as drug trafficking, corruption, embezzlement or gambling, by converting it into a legitimate source.

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ScorseseTheGoat86 t1_j1zajbj wrote

Simply, the greatest use of crypto is just being able to transfer large sums of money to someone else without the use of an intermediary. I can send you 1 millions USD (or BTC) right now and you'll get it within minutes. We don't need to get an banks involved and we pay a lot less in fees if we did wire-transfer. But that's crypto 101 stuff, most people on here prob already know that.

So pretty much its just making money transfer more efficient. For that reason, I dont see it going away anytime ever. Our world is getting faster and faster by the day, so why would money be any different?

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[deleted] t1_j1zbe58 wrote

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resumethrowaway222 t1_j1zdajh wrote

BTC is about $2. International wire will cost you more than 20, and may take several days to arrive. There are instant options to send USD, but their fees are exorbitant.

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[deleted] t1_j1zdslp wrote

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babygrenade t1_j1zgocd wrote

What are you looking at? I don't use Binance but it looks like they charge a flat withdrawal fee of 0.0002 BTC ~ $3.33 for BTC withdrawals (sending on the bitcoin network).

https://www.binance.com/en/fee/cryptoFee

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[deleted] t1_j1zit9v wrote

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babygrenade t1_j1zjx99 wrote

>For each withdrawal, a flat fee is paid by users to cover the transaction costs of moving the cryptocurrency out of their Binance account.

It says a flat fee not a percentage. If you look at another chain ADA, for example, the fee is 0.8. I seriously doubt Binance is charging 80% of the value to make and ADA transaction. No one would use Binance if that was the case.

I use coinbase and that only charges the network transactions fee. They also wrap multiple outputs into a single transaction so if you're sending from coinbase you're splitting the network fee with many other senders.

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Toss_My_Salad_Plz t1_j1zd9r6 wrote

And how long would the whole process for that wire transfer take? Are you sure it would only be $20 for 1M? You're cutting out the middle man using crypto

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Bullmoose39 t1_j1zdbus wrote

You miss the point of bey able to transfer 1M between people. No taxes. No transfers. No records. View it how you will.

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sirzoop t1_j1zdfte wrote

>You miss the point of bey able to transfer 1M between people. No taxes. No transfers. No records. View it how you will.

I am not missing anything. That literally falls under the definition of money laundering. That's literally the first use case I listed in my original post

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indysingleguy t1_j1zdsac wrote

*and also untraceable.

Hmmm....who would really need to do this? Who could it be?

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ScorseseTheGoat86 t1_j1zeh1m wrote

It’s not untraceable, if anything it’s more traceable than the fiat system. You can literally go look at every single transaction right now that’s ever been done on the blockchain. There’s exceptions like Monero, but most ledgers are available to the public.

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1yellowbanana t1_j1zepo4 wrote

It’s not untraceable. It’s the opposite. Blockchain is 100% transparent. All transactions are public.

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LizardWizard444 t1_j1z7sto wrote

Frakly I'd love to see it used for something useful like citing information but because the business sector has it's hook so deep i seriously doubt it will ever happen.

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NvidiatrollXB1 t1_j1zasg0 wrote

This is lazy thinking though. Ponzi Schemes need to obfuscate transactions from both investors and regulators in order for the scam to work, which is the exact opposite of how blockchain functions. These issues alone prove that Bitcoin cannot be a Ponzi Scheme. Blockchain generally speaking is new to most folks and they just don't get it, which explains why I always see a lot of these comments. I'll say though that a lot of crypto, say 99 percent or so of it is in fact garbage, some of which could very much be called scams but not all. BTC though doesn't have a ceo or a board to control it, its truly decentralized, a computer science breakthrough to a large degree imo and can serve multiple functions. I can find numerous examples of cash being used in money laundering also.

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AlfaHotelWhiskey t1_j1zj7w0 wrote

Yes, but this is about crypto and blockchain. Cryptocurrency is a singular use case of blockchain. In a world economy built on ledgers and supply chains of both goods and information blockchain technology has legitimate applications. Moreover, the move to proof of stake rather than proof of work cuts energy costs to the equivalent of refreshing a web page 3 or 4 times (in the case of Ethereum 2)

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OxCow t1_j1zek3p wrote

You forgot about ransomware payments! That's another use case.

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sirzoop t1_j1zenae wrote

Lmao! I classify that as money laundering but yeah that is one

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Kbeau937 t1_j1zdrxz wrote

oh because regular fiat doesn't get involved in any of that lol

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