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BoringBob84 t1_j6fy6of wrote

I like the concept of a UBI - a minimum standard of living for everyone - but from a pragmatic standpoint, I see problems.

There are many people who will piss away every penny that they get. With a UBI, those people will still end up broke and homeless. In those cases, we will need public assistance based on need to provide essential services to them (e.g., food, shelter, clothing, medicine).

Also, it seems like a waste of tax money to provide UBI checks to wealthy people who don't need them.

So, we end up back to needs-based public assistance of services, rather than cash. Maybe this is a good thing, since we already have some of those systems in place, so we can just expand and strengthen them.

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runthepoint1 t1_j6gdgog wrote

I think the point is not necessarily to worry about where the money is going but rather that the money is circulating through the economy. Hey if Jimbob down the street wants to smoke away his whole UBI check that’s fine because it goes to someone who spends it then it gets spent again, etc etc. good for the economy!

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HourApprehensive2330 t1_j6gp7yh wrote

thats the problem. people now dont have money to smoke away or do whataver. so in a sense, jobs keeps us safe. we stay out of trouble cause we gotta have clean police record so we keep being employed so we can take care of our families. ubi will lead people to completely destroy their lifes as their will be no consequences for their actions.

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runthepoint1 t1_j6gtoyd wrote

So keep people poor and then they’ll be better off? Lmao

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decoy1985 t1_j6gyw9n wrote

This is a very bizarre and unrealistic idea. UBI won't lead to people destroying their lives, it will enable countless people to fix their lives and thrive.
Most jobs don't even do a background check here in Canada, and society hasn't crumbled yet. We're doing just fine. Jobs don't keep us safe, they just keep us too busy to do what actually matters.

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technosis t1_j6h837l wrote

Since when has having a job ever stopped an addict? My wife just had to turn in a coworker for smoking meth in the bathroom at her office. This coworker has a child and she is their only caretaker. The fear of losing her job didn't help. The fear of losing her CHILD didn't help.

Addiction isn't something you can just scare out of someone with threats of homelessness. It requires a will beyond fear and the support required for treatment.

I'm in the US, arguably the most capitalist society on the planet, and everything you mentioned that UBI will cause (idleness, addiction, etc) is already happening right now in our current system. Same with all these worries about healthcare. I work and have decent insurance, yet I had to wait 4 full months to get an MRI to check for the BRAIN CANCER they were worried might be causing my vision problems. Long waits, lack of quality care, it's all happening right now, in our current system. At the very least, UBI would remove some bureaucracy and overhead from the welfare system. At best, it makes basic human dignity possible for everyone.

They ran a UBI pilot program in Stockton, California (one of the most violent and crime ridden cities in CA). According to reports, randomly selected families were given something like $500/mo no questions asked. What they found was that not only did those selected families improve their quality of life in responsible ways (trips to the doctor, braces, healthier food, etc), it increased employment in the area and they improved the quality of life of their friends and family as well. Adding just a small amount of stability to a few families made positive ripples throughout the whole community.

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strvgglecity t1_j6gevmc wrote

It doesn't matter if the handful of billionaires also collect the $3000 a month or whatever, as long as they are being taxed appropriately. The effect of monies going to those who don't need it would be negligible.

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goldygnome t1_j6gmhbt wrote

> Some people piss their money away

People with jobs also piss their money away. When that happens it's usually charities that pick up the slack, not the government. Under UBI that wouldn't change.

> it seems like a waste of tax money to provide UBI checks to wealthy people who don't need them.

They'd pay it back in tax. It's cheaper doing it this way than creating a bureaucracy to police who gets it.

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rogert2 t1_j6ghc2z wrote

> There are many people who will piss away every penny that they get.

That's also true today, in a capitalist society that has no UBI. Since you treated this possibility as a fatal argument against UBI, I assume you also believe the current economic system is exactly as unworkable as UBI, because the current capitalist economy demonstrably fails to prevent this bad outcome you consider a deal-breaker.

If we had UBI, then we could at least guarantee that the only people who are broke and homeless are people who consistently waste all their money. (And, if they ever decide to become responsible, their next UBI payment would end their poverty and homelessness.)

Capitalism doesn't provide that guarantee. In our current system, many people are broke and homeless simply because they can't find stable work or work that pays a decent wage.

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BoringBob84 t1_j6gw02j wrote

> you treated this possibility as a fatal argument against UBI,

That was not my intent. I was just thinking of what I perceive would be pros and cons.

And I agree that our current system is less-workable than a UBI, as income inequality gets ever more extreme.

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ladydafleurs t1_j6h5mp7 wrote

Almost as if the state should put more focus on funding public housing and social welfare services for the people 🤨 and atleast attempt to minimise the percentage of people who fall into the poverty cycle so that people will be educated, access mental and physical health care and be less likely to drug and gamble their money away, homeless uneducated citizens = drugs, depression, bad life choices

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