Submitted by FDuquesne t3_10gquk6 in Futurology
Surur t1_j54gmdp wrote
Reply to comment by Fiskifus in The race to make diesel engines run on hydrogen by FDuquesne
There is no such thing as meaningless economic growth. If you believe that, go move to a cave.
Fiskifus t1_j54h7di wrote
The USA is the country with the most economic growth in history and its overall quality of life in every indicator is lower than most developed countries with less economic growth, even lower than some underdeveloped countries such as Costa Rica, where life expectancy, healthcare, education and homelessness amongst other indicators all surpass that of the USA.
There you go, there's meaningless economic growth.
Surur t1_j54iit9 wrote
It may be meaningless to you, but there are elements such as military and economic influence.
It's not all about your QoL.
torte-petite t1_j54ud8d wrote
Yeah, I quite like living in the most peaceful, educated, and prosperous period in human history
Fiskifus t1_j54x5ty wrote
prosperous for who and for how many people and at what price, taking into consideration that we are generating a civilisation-ending event for our precious infinite growth in a finite planet.
torte-petite t1_j551lwf wrote
prosperous for basically the whole of mankind:
Consider that in 1800, by a $1.90 per day standard, 81 percent of people worldwide were in poverty. One-hundred-ninety years later, only 44 percent were in poverty — a reduction of less than one-fifth of a percentage point per year. By contrast, in the 28 years since 1990, the rate of $1.90 per day poverty fell by more than 1.2 percentage points per year to less than 10 percent.
Economic growth is paying for the R&D and investment in renewability/sustainability tech that will keep civilization going indefinitely.
Fiskifus t1_j552rih wrote
I agree 1.90 per day is poverty, but so is 10 per day, to how much have the 1.90 increased to exactly? because it sounds bloody convenient that 1.90 is the chosen amount for these statistics, when you can be poor with ten times as much than 1.90 per day, don't you think? Quite easy to decrease poverty, when your poverty line is an inch above the floor...
Fiskifus t1_j54ww8s wrote
If the economy doesn't serve humanity quality of life what's the point?
Surur t1_j54xk7e wrote
Maybe your QoL measure does not measure things like not being under threat of being invaded or having a space programme.
Fiskifus t1_j54y3kf wrote
How many times has Costa Rica been invaded?
Regarding a space program, yeah cool, but priorities no? Maybe you'd rather explore space while most humanity lives in misery, I'd rather explore the universe with humanity's needs met, we might all enjoy the space exploration way more, don't you think?
Also... planetary limits and tipping points... if we surpass them we might never be able to explore space ever again, either because we've depleted key materials and resources, or because we've gone extinct.
Are we aiming for short-term gains or long-term civilisation? Is this Futurology or Presentology?
Surur t1_j54ygg9 wrote
> Is this Futurology or Presentology?
Exactly. Your shortemism does not apply.
Fiskifus t1_j54yxgp wrote
Yeah, because pretending we can keep indefinitely growing in a finite planet is soooo longtermist... Good luck with your cancerous economy.
Surur t1_j54zuqu wrote
> in a finite planet
There's your problem right there lol. What are you even doing on r/futurology?
Fiskifus t1_j551qsm wrote
wait, you think that we can extract resources faster than their regeneration cycles with no consequences at all? lol
Surur t1_j552fv0 wrote
> faster than their regeneration cycles
I hope you are not one of those crackpots who think oil comes from deep carbon deposits close to the centre of the earth, right?
> no consequences at all
The consequence will be that we will be motivated to expand beyond this rock for more resources, which is a major advantage for humanity.
Fiskifus t1_j5552x5 wrote
>I hope you are not one of those crackpots who think oil comes from deep carbon deposits close to the centre of the earth, right?
No, I hope you are not one of those crackpots who think cheap, easily extractable oil is infinite, and that it doesn't get harder and more expensive (not only money, but energy-wise) to extract the more it is extracted.
>The consequence will be that we will be motivated to expand beyond this rock for more resources, which is a major advantage for humanity.
Do you know anything about planetary tipping points? The earth's climate could turn to something more resembling Mercury if we surpass certain warming tipping points, and same can be said regarding acidification of oceans, biodiversity reduction, and many other tipping points which, if surpassed, it'll be impossible to come back from, and we require as a species. The world and life in general could survive climate catastrophe, humans won't.
stivo t1_j5521s0 wrote
Costa Rica? Remind me what happens when they get hit by a hurricane?
Fiskifus t1_j553ej1 wrote
That they get universal public health care and robust public services to rebuild, please check the homelessness rate of Costa Rica.
earthman34 t1_j57qjbj wrote
You're not totally wrong, but I bet most every technology you depend on in your day to day life was developed and marketed in the USA originally.
neglectedselenium t1_j5f68cn wrote
The life expectancy in the US dropped because of gun violence, car centered cities and poor lifestyle choices
Fiskifus t1_j5fqwlk wrote
Yeah, and privatised health care, and overworking, and crap retirement, pollution from overproduction, and many others... All great for economic growth.
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