Submitted by lavaforgood t3_ywyatm in IAmA
piceathespruce t1_iwncwzd wrote
Hi team,
Excellent reporting and thank you for your work. The positive comparisons to In The Dark are warranted.
It seems like Leo openly admitted to striking Michelle several times. There were credible witness statements of more violent behavior. Do you ever feel like this is a lot of effort to get a wife-beater out of jail?
I've been around intimate partner violence and have zero problem with life sentences for men who beat their wives. How do you balance the "innocent" theme with someone who absolutely committed violence against a woman who is now dead?
lavaforgood OP t1_iwnymzi wrote
You’re right that Leo has openly admitted to striking Michelle on a couple occasions. I personally am fortunate to have no experience with intimate partner violence, so I can’t speak from that place, but I have spent a lot of time with Leo. He’s been willing to discuss the times he struck Michelle, and he’s expressed remorse for who he was and how he behaved at age 21. And, I believe him. I feel like he’s genuinely sorry and has grown immensely in the time since. That being said, Gilbert and I have had many, many conversations about this over the years. We’ve always anticipated having to answer these questions, and yet it is never easy.
We’ve looked at all the testimony and we’ve spoken to everyone who would agree to talk. And there are a few credible witness statements. But, there are also a few instances that were testified to that Leo says just didn’t happen. Stuff like this is hard to prove or disprove, especially 35 years after the fact. But what we do know is that Leo’s prosecutor, and the detectives in this case, were motivated to find witnesses who would testify to Leo’s violence and bad behavior. The conviction hinged on this bad character evidence. What we don’t have are any reports filed against Leo, anyone who ever called the cops on him, or anyone who can claim they ever saw a bruise on Michelle. I do know that domestic violence is oftentimes a very private thing, but without any evidence like this, it just never amounted to enough for us to turn away from this case.
At the end of the day, Leo was convicted for murder, and there’s not much hard evidence to support that he was capable of a crime like this, and even less to support that he’s guilty of the murder. On the other hand, we know that Jeremy Scott is capable of a crime like this. And, he’s forensically linked to Michelle’s murder, and has confessed to it.
Since his conviction, Leo has remarried. Leo and his wife Crissie have now been together for 26 years. Crissie wants nothing more than to have Leo home with her. As does their daughter, Ashley, and her two children.
All this is to say, these questions and concerns are valid. These are things I’ve grappled with numerous times over the past four years. But I haven’t seen anything that has given me pause, for more than a brief moment. And I certainly haven’t seen anything that has caused me to question the time and energy I’ve put into this investigation.
I wholeheartedly believe in Leo’s innocence, and I see him as a person of integrity and deep moral conviction. I believe he is worthy of everything I’ve invested into this project and this case.
-KD
piceathespruce t1_iwo7egc wrote
I appreciate the thorough response and the extra background information. I still think this falls in a trap common in true crime and podcasting where the "story" becomes so important that things as drastic as striking your 18 year old wife get tossed to the side without "more than a brief pause."
If you put a fraction of the empathy you put to the wife-beater who's in prison for the wrong crime to any of the women who suffer intimate partner violence, it would give you more than "a brief pause."
pankiki t1_iwqht01 wrote
Your comments are disgusting. As a survivor of sexual violence, you don't speak for me. I commend Kelsey and Gilbert for the work they've done, and I find your incessant need to prove how much 'better' more 'empathetic' you are repulsive. Is your only sense of self-worth coming from Reddit forums? Go touch some grass.
No one ever said Leo was a good person. Leo himself doesn't say that. The first fucking episode spends a lot of time talking about his flaws and his shortcomings. "Innocent" does not mean 100% clean - it means he was innocent of killing his wife, an act he never committed.
"Brush off" - I'm sorry, were they supposed to dedicate a whole fucking season to this? You do realize that's not the story here, right? Or are you blinded by your own arrogance to think that what you deem is important must be the focus of the story, else these people are heartless monsters with no empathy? Maybe you didn't listen to the countless of hours spent empathizing with Michelle, or the pain they felt as they got closer and closer to her killer.
No, forget about her murder! Let's talk about the times she was abused by her husband. Let's dismiss the times he's repented for that. Let's forget Leo's growth. Let's focus on a part of the story, and then make the people who are trying to get an innocent man out of jail feel like shit because they didn't focus on his flaws enough.
How dare you claim that they don't have empathy for Michelle. You speak with the authority of someone who knows these people as well as Gilbert and Kelsey do, and it translates to blatant, revolting arrogance.
I'm seriously appalled that someone with such little skills in comprehension could figure out how to type a sentence, regardless of how deluded it is.
You are the moral equivalent of a leech. On a good day, you're a half-wit.
I hope you have the day you deserve.
RadioPodDude t1_iwopv9q wrote
Bully. You were ready to pounce on whatever these podcasters said that didn’t align with your own sociopathic, Trump-like stance on empathy and punishment. I’m curious why you have nothing to say about their empathy for Jeremy Scott who committed far worse acts of intimate partner violence. The impulse to shame a young woman who thoughtfully answered your questions was just too irresistible, wasn’t it? You suck.
piceathespruce t1_iwp0g9w wrote
"Bully" I'm not the one who brushed off abusing a teenager. They're the ones who did that.
I still think it's good reporting overall. I just think they were way too quick to brush off the reality that the man in prison, while not a murderer, is still a sack of shit wife beater, and I don't really care if he dies in prison.
RadioPodDude t1_iwplmn5 wrote
No wonder you liked the podcast. It’s a feel-good story for you. Did you jump out of your rocking chair and do your happy dance when Schofield was denied parole? You might not share Trump’s politics, but you share his soul.
piceathespruce t1_iwp0nas wrote
"Trump like stance" yeah dude, we all know what an advocate of women Trump is. We all know his number one goal is making sure battered women get justice.
Real smart cookie over here.
piceathespruce t1_iwp0c9s wrote
Obviously fuck the actual murderer more. He's in prison and no one is trying to get him out, so it's not a topic of discussion.
dansj300 t1_iwq19vz wrote
This always fascinates me. Gilbert and Kelsey were telling a specific story. Domestic abuse has a role in that story, which they addressed and covered in proper context to the larger narrative.
In doing so, care was given not to whitewash or ignore unpleasant aspects of the protagonist's reality, and it was clearly done honestly.
But that's not the story you wish be told. That's fine. Go investigate and tell the story from the perspective YOU want it to be told. Nothing's stopping you.
The Gilbert and Kelsey are responsible for honestly telling a true story with nuance and compassion, which they did. They did not fall into a trap, they simply focused on the story they were telling. That's not a travesty, nor does it diminish the validity of the narrative.
ryecatcher19 t1_iwojf4o wrote
In the 20/20 special on Leo, he strongly says that he never physically abused Michelle. He said it was only emotional abuse.
It was tough to watch and believe.
RadioPodDude t1_iwotcxt wrote
I just pulled this up on Hulu because I remembered the statement differently when I first heard it, and guess what? You got this wrong, too. That’s not what he says on 20/20. He was describing an incident as going down differently from what the friend says and Michelle even backs him up.
What’s going on here? Why do you keep getting facts wrong that can easily be checked?
ryecatcher19 t1_iwovccs wrote
Leo said in the 20/20 episode:
“Physical abuse is one type of abuse and then you have the emotional abuse, which I’m guilty of"
RadioPodDude t1_iwow29x wrote
Is this an apology for getting your quote wrong, or do you not understand the difference between those statements?
ryecatcher19 t1_iwox3t3 wrote
Leo said he was emotionally abusive.
Leo said he was not physically abusive.
What is wrong about my quote?
My original point was that Leo said he was not physically abusive.
RadioPodDude t1_iwoyohg wrote
Ok. I thought you might be doing it on purpose. But it looks like you’re just unaware of what misquoting is.
ryecatcher19 t1_iwqeeid wrote
You silly goose, I see what you are doing.
You are wrong and dodging it and I love it.
Don't ever stop.
piceathespruce t1_iwoke5q wrote
Right, because it's an obvious lie, because he admitted to hitting her many times, including in court.
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