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AlabastorRetard t1_j0geu22 wrote

Do ever feel like your just putting a plaster over a bigger problem as many nurses are probably compassion fatigued because they're underpaid/overworked in the least funded area of the NHS?

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UniversityofBath OP t1_j0giqp3 wrote

Great question. Think this absolutely is a risk of interventions which only target individual staff members. The one I am designing is intended to be a multi-level intervention – so to target both staff members with things they can do that might help, and also to try to tackle some of the more systemic problems, via influence on managers and creative thinking about how to overcome massive workloads and tricky rota-ing issues etc. It doesn’t help with the chronic underfunding of the NHS and undervaluing of the nursing profession. I’m really hoping that the current strikes will prompt some engagement from the government and the possibility of some solutions to that.

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princess_natwee t1_j0gkf60 wrote

Similar situation going on in children's residential homes. We're often working with teens who have just left hospital or secure units but chronic underfunding and lack of appropriately trained/ competent staff combined with ludicrous red tape and unrealistic expectations means all to often they end up going back.

Therapeutically parenting traumatised children and teens is challenging and compassion fatigue is a very real issue that definitely needs greater awareness and intervention. It is, however, something that needs to take place alongside a complete overhaul of health and social care services. My fear is that what sounds like it has great potential would be used to allow complacency with the current standards which are seeing vulnerable people failed on an alarming scale.

ETA wrote this without seeing Dr Lucy had responded. It's great to hear you've acknowledged wider issues and the need for systematic change!

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UniversityofBath OP t1_j0glfn0 wrote

I think that is a real risk which is important to try to guard against. My worry with waiting until there has been a complete overhaul though, as you say, is we may be waiting a while, and if there are some interventions which we know have value, both for staff individually, and at a more team focussed or wider system focussed level, then should we wait or is it good to offer what we can whilst still shouting about the problems in the wider system?

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EvetsYenoham t1_j0il89d wrote

Or that your just saturating an already super over-saturated self-help market? Or are there some novel ideas in your book?

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[deleted] t1_j0hovzr wrote

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Acrobaticlama t1_j0ilrdy wrote

Okay everyone! u/VoidsIncision doesn’t buy it, wrap things up and get back to work! He knows someone and he’s clocked onto us and our lambos.

First off, if you want to compare salaries using the median would be more representative than the mean.

Secondly, the salaries are on the Agenda for Change salary guidance.

Band 5 nurses:

  • <2 years' experience £27,055
  • 2-4 years £29,180
  • 4+ years £32,934

Of course there are all sorts of fees that eat into that. For example having to pay to park at work. My hospital was £18/shift if you couldn’t get a staff pass to reduce it to about £8/shift, but they were always out of them anyways.

There are also exams, professional registrations, and other costs which chip away at that.

I’m a doctor (thankfully leaving medicine in a few weeks forever for a new non-medical job!) and last year i spent:

  • £1546 on mandatory exams
  • £433 for the GMC - mandatory annual fee
  • £453 for the GMC - mandatory certificate
  • £479 for the BMA
  • £850 on “optional but not really because if you dont them you’re behind everyone else” courses

total: £3760 just to keep working.

More expensive are things like the opportunity cost of not buying a house because I was thrown about the country every few months and the massive student loans.

but hey after 4 university degrees and a decade of training I broke £60k last year by like £200 so who am I to complain? It’s more than the median! Thankfully my non-medical job will pay well and my backup was moving to Canada which again pays more for less work so my complaints were ending either way. I wonder if I would’ve had your permission to complain when I worked Christmas covering ~200 patients for £12.something per hour. Or if that was okay because hey, more than the median.

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FireZeLazer t1_j0mopv0 wrote

Everyone looks at the pay and compares it to to average, but then completely ignore the fact that:

  • this is often after a decade of gaining experience

  • these also include some of the highest performing academically capable people

I'm privileged to be in a role with almost guaranteed progression to earning about £60k. But at the same time, I could earn most twice that if I'd gone into Data Science and worked for a private company. Or even just moved to Canada doing the same job!

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Historical-Mastodon9 t1_j0ofidw wrote

May I ask what you're planning to change careers to? Seems a shame to have gone through all that training only to do something else.

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Acrobaticlama t1_j0w5l4m wrote

Sure thing! I’ll be utilising the knowledge and skills I gained over the years, they haven’t gone to waste.

I’m switching to medical affairs for a pharmaceutical company. I also received offers for management consulting. Any UK medics reading this considering leaving, there are options! Feel free to message if you have questions.

If I had switched earlier I’d have been less burnt out and bitter about my experience and significantly better off financially by now. I never dreamt of one day leaving medicine and I generally try to live a life without regrets, but if I had to pick one it would be applying to medical school. Considering a significant portion of my medical friends have left or are thinking of leaving medicine, or have gone abroad, I think it’s a common sentiment.

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