Submitted by BE33_Jim t3_zyejgx in LifeProTips
It stinks to show up on your first day and be handed an NDA, non-compete, and/or IP ownership docs that you were not expecting. You're not exactly in a strong negotiating position at that point...
I'd really like this to become the default standard when hiring people, but it's going to take some time or laws to change to make it happen.
Exactly. So before you resign at your current company X, ask company Y what they want you to sign.
I personally don't have an issue with signing that stuff. I get it. I'd rather not but I understand why they have you do it. they don't want employees stealing their jobs or clients. or stealing their work ideas. I guess it all depends on the industry and what you're actually doing. it's to protect the company.
I personally work in a trade. the company I work for cut overtime so on the weekends I started working for a buddy to make some extra cash. one of my a hole coworkers somehow found out and went and reported me. I got called into the office and told I wasn't allowed to do that. supposedly in the handbook I signed there was a non compete in there. I really should have read it - but I didn't. at the time I just skimmed thru it and signed it bc I needed the job. at 1st I was extremely angry bc It was on my own time. how can you tell me what I'm allowed to do in my day off? I wasn't stealing company clients. but I was indeed working for the competition. Basically I was told that they owned me and that I couldn't work for anyone else. they did however tell me that if I needed the overtime they'd give me whatever hours I needed. so I figure that was fair.
as an employee it sucks. but from a company perspective I totally understand why they do it.
It’s all good until you apply at an unethical company without knowing it.
Ok but if they are being unethical how do these documents affect you once signed. NDA and IP are not going to screw you over unless you talk about stuff you were told not to. And you wouldn't have the knowledge about their ethics or products without signing those documents first. At worst maybe they try to use a noncompete clause to box you in to only work for them but I feel like that's unlikely and mostly a waste of their time if you just quit.
You literally mentioned a good reason in your comment. What if the Noncompete is over the top and boxes you in? What if the NDA has huge financial penalties? You won’t know until you read it.
[removed]
I actually replied but was shadow banned. Reposting with edits.
>What if the NDA has huge financial penalties
..If you broke it. Don't break a contract lol. If it's another companies product or property they own the rights to it. Doesn't matter if you don't like it. That's called being a responsible adult.
>What if the Noncompete is over the top and boxes you in?
IANAL but noncompetes can be disputed and it's usually a facade anyways. The only time a company is going to sue you over a non-compete is if you were going to be hired to their direct competitor with your knowledge. Like a head AMD engineer transferring to a head Intel engineer. Even then, remote employment opportunities would likely render those null and unenforceable.
So to summarize: These points are just moot. The only one remotely close to worrying about is the noncompete and even that is probably useless or unenforceable in most circumstances.
It’s weird how much the whole point of this post has just gone over your head.
Yes, don’t sign a contract if you plan to break it. Yes, feel free to fight your non compete clause in court. Those are both valid points.
But you are missing the biggest point. You might not care, but someone else might not want to sign those agreements. That’s valid yes? You shouldn’t feel forced to work for a particular employer, and it’s your right to go somewhere else. However, if you resign from your job without seeing those contracts, you might feel forced to work for that employer because you have bills to pay and a family to support. It’s better to see them before you resign.
YOU might think it’s moot, and not worth worrying about, but there are many people that this would apply to. If the advice doesn’t fit you, ignore it. It doesn’t change the fact that this can be good advice for some people.
> It doesn’t change the fact that this can be good advice for some people.
I don't even disagree with you that companies should have to disclose those documents upfront before the hiring process. However the advice you're giving is not good advice. It hinders someone's opportunity for employment. If HR thinks you're being difficult with them they will just find someone else and you lose your opportunity.
I work in IT and we bought another company. During the merge we had people being difficult with people installing new MFA software on their devices because of data privacy rights concerns. They were claiming that they weren't going to install it because it violates their data Privacy rights. The companies response > There's the door. Companies don't play around in America.
If you ask HR for the paperwork so your lawyer can review them before signing I can assure you that you won't need to worry about it anymore anyways.
It seems incredibly unlikely that a company would rescind an offer for politely asking to review any documents in advance. If you ask politely and they refuse, that might be a sign you didn’t want to work there anyway.
Your example doesn’t really apply here because those employees refused to follow company guidelines. The post is not telling you to refuse, it’s saying to ask to review them.
>The post is not telling you to refuse, it’s saying to ask to review them.
Fair point and I will give you that. However my point is that:
A) NDAs and the like are not going to affect you anyways unless you violate them by disclosing information you were specifically told not to. Sign it anyways.
B) Non-compete contracts are the only thing worth reviewing here. Even still they are so astronomically unlikely to ever affect you anyways. Sign it anyways unless you're working in a very niche field.
My point is that there are people out there who would like to review the NDA, noncompete, etc before they start working. If you’re not one of those people, maybe this advice just doesn’t apply to you. 🤷♂️
Don’t accept a job without knowing who you’ll work with and why the last person walked out.
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Since you made a list, why not just expect the items on that list?
Because you don’t know if those documents will have unethical clauses in it.
Whatever.
You could have just said “thank you.”
I could have but then I'd be lying.
You learned something. It would be appropriate. Or you just continue being the negative person you are. It makes no difference to me. Good luck.
Luck I don't need. What the world needs is less nonsense and this post is nonsense.
Just because you don’t understand, doesn’t mean it’s nonsense.
Oh, I understand. Have confidence in that.
Nonsense is akin to jibber jabber and that is what this post is.
ABena2t t1_j25dlpe wrote
that might be true - but if you want the job you have to sign those either way. sign or walk away. most companies are pretty firm on those. they're not going to negotiate that no matter what.