I’ll be curious to hear the responses, as a fellow professional making “peanuts”, who’s always been interested in trades work. (Here’s a special angry shout-out to all the all the teachers in my youth who down-played trades and pushed college as if it were my only real option. What a load of crap.)

Tbf to those teachers, back in the day having a college degree DID earn you more than trades.

As a retired mechanic I will add just one part of the equation. How trades affect your body physically. A lot of times you have to work in less than optimal weather conditions. Breathe crap, Stand/sit and use limbs in awkward positions for extended periods of time. It takes a toll. I am not minimizing teaching, just saying what I never realized about my profession.

But these days there are so many new tools and technology that take some of the wear and tear off of our bodies. I thank you for your sacrifice.

Go to BIW. Learn a trade. Maybe in a decade you’ll be in a place financially to return to the school system. It has been designed to fail and current teachers are expected to fix it in their free time.

If you’re up for the labor, try to choose from welding, pipefitting, electrical, machinists, carpentry, and maybe rigging. These all provide good room for growth and a lot to learn. Apprentice group takes people in on a semester basis and has benefits/drawbacks depending on the individual

Ask yourself if you are OK building implements of war? How will you feel if the product of your effort kills people, lots of people?

As a former nuc submariner (that was stationed on a new construction boat at Electric Boat) I can attest that the prospect of having to kill lots of people I never even knew weighed heavily on me. Then to be stationed on the Navy's newest and most efficient killer and assist in it's construction was even worse.

Just a thought.

Sage advice.

You could look at it that way, or that it's a deterrent to keep us safe.

>back in the day

I wonder how much things have changed in a decade. Did a college degree really earn much more then? Looking back as an adult, I always assumed it was some elitist crap, but maybe there really was a shift between the Great Recession and COVID times…

You should.

Only caveat is when BIW runs out of work they'll lay you off lickety-split.

How long do you think Senator Collins will remain alive and sending money their way?

The military-industrial complex is pretty safe-- they even order stuff they don't want with the excuse being it keeps industry rolling and trained people at the ready.

Such as? I’m 22 working as a wrench and my knees and joints are absolutely wrecked today after the work week. Good insoles, I’m not a fatass, always lift heavy shit safely. Just curious what I’m doing wrong.

My suggestion is if you are interested in Electrical Work, IBEW local 567 is where you could apply to get into the union apprenticeship Journeyman Wage is $33/hr, I’m a electrician originally from Maine but currently living in Wyoming

What “day” are you talking about?

In the early 80’s I started as a union apprentice brickmason. I worked at it for 7 years and left when the jobs dried up. I worked about 10 years for a non-profit and when their main source of funds stopped switched to teaching.

I made MORE as an apprentice mason than I did nearly 14 years later as a rookie teacher. Physically the toll on my body was not as bad as masonry, mentally of course teaching was MUCH harder and I worked way more hours past 40 essentially unpaid. As a mason I had a foreman and the owner of the company to keep happy. As a teacher EVERYONE seemed to be my boss: the superintendent, the school admin, parents, taxpayers and the school board and even 12-13 year olds at times! It was aggravating, exhausting, and frustrating but mentally stimulating!

Good luck in the shift to working with your hands in a trade. At the end of a job you can point to something tangible and with pride (hopefully) say “I did that”, a type of gratification that one RARELY gets as an educator. I hope the new career is satisfying!

I’ve been there (not BIW) but teaching and work in construction. Trades can earn you a lot but you have to work your way up, get or have skills like welding.

My dad was a plumber for many years and could make real good money but it was far more than 40 hours a week and it abused his body. Travel can be a pain too.

Teaching is hard for a lot of reasons not the least of which is that having few tangible signs of success. With things like construction or mechanical work you get to see results.

Wish I had an easy answer for you. Look for other districts that pay better. You’re not going to get rich teaching but the grass isn’t always greener.

I made $26/hr at Portsmouth Naval SY working for DLA. It was a desk job. I previously worked at a college, only had a 2 year degree. If youre going to work on a SY, work for the federal gov. The benefits were wonderful. I kick myself daily for leaving that position.

Have you explored other professions that aren’t the trades and that better leverage your existing skill set? For example, working at an educational non profit or educational services firm like Pearson? This is probably a better long-term use of your skills.

Why on earth would you seek out backbreaking labor when you could learn a few programming languages via a boot camp, get some certs, build a few projects in GitHub, and make $80k a year?

Yup, perception is everything and that would be one way of perceiving WMDs.

The OP is looking for an alternative career path. I'd suggest inquiring at Reed&Reed, just across the river from BIW, or any of the other big construction co.s. Civil engineering and marine construction also offers satisfying and well paid positions without the baggage.

You’re not jerking with your back.

I feel your pain brother. Physical therapy/exercise, diet, and or change careers and I hate to say it but it only gets worse. I started working on cars for money at 14 and made it to 59.

Guy I'm in my 30s and my body is wrecked from 17 years of blue collar work.

There's nothing that will alleviate the physical toll of the trades.

You'll be in great shape, but it's hard.

If you’re looking for money be a p-10. They have most overtime of the trades. Currently getting roughly 1k a week at $25 at biw

BIW has it's good and bad. It's different from any construction site I've ever been on.

First shift has A LOT OF PEOPLE. it's a small city in there. If you don't do good with crowds this is not the place for you. Parking is a nightmare, there's no way around it. Leaving the yard adds 10-20min to any commute.

From what I heard about the electrical department, it's not that transferable outside the yard. You won't learn how to work on your house by working at BIW.

The people are amazing, some of the funniest, coolest group of dudes Ive worked with.

The pay is GOOD and if you wanna go into management and you got a pulse, id say you gotta good shot.

He's best off going union becoming a master and then ditching the union and running his own business. A lot of electricians here are pushing $100/hr now. I'm a Maine master electrician myself and bill out at $135/hr.

Nobody is asked to break their back at BIW there are plenty of machines available to do the heavy lifting

I work at BIW CURRENTLY. Vuce president has halted the hiring process. Rumor is 1500 people could get cut. Too many new mechanics. Welders are out on loan to other trades, because they dont have enough work in their own trade. They are not hiring welders now, and my bet is that itll be awhile. I am 20, and started this last February as a Preservation Tech. Lots of things to learn, and very easy to move up the pay scale if youre motivated. Everything is decided on Seniority. tldr: put an application in, dont expect a response for 6 monthes. hopefully by then hiring freeze will be over.

feel free to dm me with any questions about biw atmosphere

Our ships also deliver resources to allies and bring civillians out of wat

I worked there for 6 years, the physical harm it did to my lungs and knees are the only reason I got done. Money was good and the politics within the yard were terrible.

Cmcc just opened a three week welding cert, if that interests you.

Piggybacking here to say with my curriculum chops and the MLTI I was able to transition to my own online school hosted by Teachable with all my content videos hosted on Vimeo. I worked part time while my daughter was 0-5 and made the same as half time teaching in the district except everything was on my terms all the time and I did it in my pjs. I teach adults how to make botanical art and my clients are well educated women with their own money and time to create beautiful things. Pandemic gave me an assist with the online learning boom to keep WFH people occupied. If you can write curricula and have a niche start now and develop intellectual property for adults to purchase and learn from. It’s fantastic. Black Friday is my favorite day of the year. I release a bunch of new courses and folks go bananas. It’s all online. I don’t have a home studio. My courses range from 65-299 USD. Teachable once said their most successful course creator did a seminar on raising goats. So dude. Anything is possible.

The weather is such a big thing. My dad worked on the water in the mid-Atlantic and by his late 50s, I’m not sure if the dead of winter or the height of summer worried me more. He wound up retiring early because the job was literally killing him and he was only qualified to do more of the same work.

There are pros and cons to both. Let me give you the other side.

I've been a teacher for 20+ years. My Salary is more than it would be if I had made the same choice you are considering. I get my summers off. During that time, I've been able to spend tons of time with my kids as they grpw up - I've done things like gone camping for entire month. I have a side hustle doing small contracting jobs. I only take jobs I want - when it fits my schedule.

I also have LOTS of hobbies that make money (playing in bands for instance), but I would never want to have those things be needing to pay the bills. Teaching affords me the time to persue my passions.

I have strong union representation and job security. I'm so deep in the seniority list that I'm confident I won't get laid off.

I felt like I was making peanuts at the beginning. I feel very comfortable now. I still have 20+ years to go.

Consider moving districts to a place with a higher salary. Unfortunately some districts pay significantly more.

There are also lots of opportunities to 'move up' in education. Stay long enough and you'll start to see them.

It's hard being a new teacher.

You can be an “marine electrician” down there your entire working life and accrue exactly zero hours towards state licensing. Quotes because the vast majority only pull wire/cable, and don’t terminate a damn thing.

No idea if you’re in maintenance, I’d really hope the hours would count but I wouldn’t be surprised at all if they didn’t

I haven't worked for BIW but I have worked for General Dynamics at other locations and so I'm confident the following information will translate.

The trades are a noble profession, no question so I'm not going to talk about the jobs themselves but I will address the other factors that make a job tolerable/intolerable.

You're considering entering into a job that is in a constant state of feast or famine. They squabble for contracts with Missisippi and Susan constantly has to bail them out. That hire/fire life cycle drives your coworkers mentally crazy. Working for General Dynamics at other locations, cronyism was the only way to advance up in pay scale. You could certainly be smart and good at your job and move up the ranks, it happens but I think you'll need to be calculated with any vertical movement. I would also be suspicious when any "promises" of potential earnings are made. Big bucks usually mean working nights, weekends and every holiday while the white collar workers are home wkth their families.

Most of your coworkers are going to be hyper conservative. The older men have spent most of their life having their jobs outsourced. They're justifiably frustrated but instead of blaming Newt Gingrich, they'll spend their whole work day blaming the "illegals" for all their problems.

Do you want to be a part of the military industrial complex? The US Military is the single largest polluter in the world. Do you know where those missles they shoot are going to be used? Can you sleep at night not knowing? The US has bombed and killed just as many innocent people as they have people who deserved it.

Do you want to work around all those carcinogens? The machine shop is full of oils, the paint shop is full of solvents and other nasty shit. You can bring up safety issues to your foreman but you'll get called a pussy by your coworkers. Your hearing will be wrecked working there too.

Sorry to be a buzz kill but I've worked in the industry for over half of my professional careee and left. I wouldn't give up my summer vacations or Maine Teachers Retirementt to work at BIW.

If you DO decide to go in, get your electrical license through them, then GTFO and go into residential wiring for yourself

I’ve got liners I machined under the induction motors and radar arrays on the Michael Monsoor

I’ve machined Abrams parts, JDAM bomb parts, fighter parts, and more FN contract rifle parts than you can shake a stick at.

Government trough pays really good all the way down, and personally it’s a small sense of pride.

Two types of people in this world I guess lol

Your comment should not be getting downvoted.

People who use that bullshit arguement that defense contracting is a "deterrent" are saying it from the plushy comfort of their couch not having to worry about their family being slaughtered because the US just installed a fascist dictator into their country. 1 million innocent iraqi's are dead because of Dick Cheney.

I bet the politics were horrific. I worked at other General Dynamics shops and the politics literally almost got me killed. No joke

If you want a swap we are hiring still at Abbott, lots of lab positions available for far more than $25 an hour.

I also am wondering when this was.. I graduated late 90s. I started teaching early 2000's never has it been in my career that the trades were downplayed. Granted my a chick so it was not really normal for girls to go to trade school but it was and option.

The only ridiculous thing that was told to me was not to worry about how to pay for school. And just take out a crap ton of loans, which 20 years later I am still paying back.

Take a peek at the openings at Idexx or Abbott. There are some smaller players in the biotech industry in the area, but their career progression options are limited compared to those two.

With a Bachelor’s degree, you should be able to start at $60-70k/year and build a very strong technical skill set based in immunological or nucleic acid in vitro diagnostics, with significant career progression and salary growth potential.

Get your foot in the door however possible, prove yourself, and then aim for a transfer into R&D, which is where you’ll pick up the most relevant and valuable technical skills. There’s also career potential in quality, regulatory, technical manufacturing, and support fields, but having bench research experience is the most valuable foundation.

Given that you’ve never worked in a lab but have a professional work history, you’d probably have an easy time convincing the HR screener and/or hiring manager you’re worth a shot if you write a decent cover letter explaining your interest in changing careers.

Source: me; bachelor’s + 20 of progressive biotech industry experience.

BIW has lab positions you could look into

What day was that cuz in the early 2000s,my father, who's a master electrician, was making $50/hour

Bunch of my relatives were pipe fitters. A few were IBEW types. A couple worked in management. A science degree should land you a job.

I have no experience relating to your question, but I do know welders are often in short supply.

My suggestion to the younger crowd looking to get into the trades is to learn how to program and operate the larger machines. CNC operators are in demand in a variety of geographical locations and the well-paying jobs appear very secure.

It sounds counter intuitive but going to the gym before work helps me a lot, and stretching/yoga does wonders.

Had a older cousin who was a brick mason nearly his entire adult until he reached 65. Always wished he had a better paying job but work was steady and he was built like a tank. My dad was built the same way. 20 years of chucking artillery in the army then a pipefitter/cord puller at BIW for another 20 until he retired.

I think this is an important perspective. As someone with a lot of family in education, there are major non-salary benefits to the profession. If someone has no plans to ever have kids or take care of kids, that probably does knock down some of the biggest benefits.

I think the state and the union really need to reconsider the starting salary and progression schedule for new teachers given the current labor market. We're going to be in a world of shit if more people don't join and stick with the profession, and "you'll feel good about your salary in 20 years" is not a good selling point.

I took the SMCC intro to manufacturing class in Brunswick in 2020, just as COVID hit. Took 3 weeks of my time, (granted they paid me $500 a week,) interview at the end, I aced the interview, the guy practically hired me on the spot, but I had a notice to work out so he held off on the offer, said he would call me. Just as I finished the classes and went through that one interview, the union went on strike, which froze hiring.... there were like 20 of us... I think only one probably got the job and it was because he got scouted for the BIW wrestling team through Maine Maritime Academy, and I'm not even sure he got the job.

COVID and the strike fucked EVERYTHING up and kind of soured me. After the strike was over they started hiring literally EVERYONE they could get their hands on.... you can imagine that creates a range of potential employees.... rumors started flying about hard drugs in the yard and of course there's the massive parking issue, compounded with strict rules on being late and at the time it would have created a long commute for me while driving a truck. The job seemed more and more not worth it. I called twice a week for 2 weeks and got nothing so I gave up on it and took a job hanging ductwork for a company in Westbrook.

I work at PNS. A decade after starting there, I've tripled my starting salary. It's a great career, great benefits, and a great future. I love what I do, and our provides a comfortable life for myself and my kids. I wish I did it sooner.

Starting teacher pay just got raised to 40k state-wide

True. Each district negotiates the salary scale and I know many are.

If you do the math. The OP will be making more per hour teaching than working at BIW (based on what others are saying) in just about any district in the state starting or at least within a few years... (35k ÷ 180 ÷ 8 = 24.3)

I mean, I could see not liking the salary and going into business or something, but...

Sadly most masons don’t physically last that long. For every one that makes it to 65 my guess is there’s a few hundred that were out well before that.

I was a bit older than most apprentices and had a degree so I appreciated working with the older more interesting guys. My favorite was a man in his early 60’s that I teamed up with on a job. We were laying nearly solid blocks in a prison so it was 2 men on a block. He told hilarious jokes and stories all day so I didn’t mind picking up the slack.

Sadly he also had a serious drinking problem that seemed to be an common occupational hazard, perhaps self medication for dealing with chronic pain? Between the drink and sleep apnea he was picked up at the same stoplight near his home 2 weekends in a row asleep at the wheel and over the limit. He had to rely on pals to “car pool” to jobs. Rough life!

I currently work there. From what I understand we are currently in a 6 month hiring freeze. That could change though at any time. I would recommend taking anything you would feel comfortable doing that they offer to you. Honestly. Once you’re in the yard and you get a feel for it, as long as another trade is hiring and you make sure to talk to the people in that trade to pull your application, moving trades is relatively straightforward. I am a blaster and I love it, been there for 12 years. It is definitely a lot of hard work. Just like any other job it has its ups and downs, long list of pros and equally long list of cons but I wouldn’t give it up. Can’t beat the pay, the benefits, union gig, and at the end of the day we’re putting together a product that is there to protect us.

Do you know why they are running ads on the radio currently? I heard on 107.5 Frank FM the $23.50 / hr entry level trade positions ad, as well as apparently them being out at the Fryeburg fair.

I'm not saying you're lying or wrong, it just seems off that they are advertising but are in a hiring freeze.

Ibew is accepting apprentices?

Have you tried looking for a job with the state? Not just DOE, but I imagine there’s a couple agencies that a Bio grad could work for. Good pay and benefits, same retirement system. I’ve found it to be significantly less stress.

Yeah this is a very recent decision and I’m sure those ads were already arranged. We had a change at the Vice President level, an old VP returning. From what I understand the decision was made to stop the hiring while we kind of switch gears. It may not be a true hiring freeze, they might let some trickle in but they are definitely going to slow down hiring. If you are interested definitely show up to any events that are around you, and definitely apply. I’m not trying to discourage you, just letting you know what I’ve heard.

Thanks for the reply!

Physical toll of the trades. I’ve been doing it all since I was a wee lad. It’s not that bad. Tough work of course, but my body feels great!!

Granted, not nearly as related because I work as a designer and not the trades, but I switch from Ed Tech for a Maine high school to working in Brunswick at BIW last February. $6 pay jump to switch and no kids yelling or throwing shit at me. It was definitely worth it.

Trades generally have a peak salary, and yeah you can make some real good money doing it. But, Most of the old timers still in the trade are messed up physically. Worked with a plumber that could barely walk. Had a welder come on board the ship to weld in a new hatch dragging an oxygen bottle. We made him keep that in the next compartment from where he was welding. He had to step out between beads to get a breath. Sketchy AF.

If you do go into the trades, take care of your body. If you chose welding, make sure to get a slim line respirator to wear under your welding helmet. Miller Welding makes a good one that doesn’t interfere with the helmet.

I thought you were politely not saying G-d-Damn but then realized it was General Dynamics.

[deleted]

Make sure that’s what you really want. I did the opposite of you. Wanted to be a teacher , ended up working for a BIW competitor. It’s lucrative but passionless work. Unless of course you find meaning in it which many do … good luck in your choice.

Are IBEW Apprenticeships paid? I'm actually closer to Lewiston so it would be nice.

If you’re in maine I’d recommend, with your background in bio, trying to work in a lab setting (jackson lab is what I’m familiar with) you can work your way up there pretty quickly if you try to some sort of research project management position after being a research assistant. It’ll probably start around 22 an hour (but you could probably qualify for higher if you sell some experience in college as wet lab experience, but after a few years youd be able to translate into a 65-70k/year job in project management, then that is transferable to a lot of different places for much more money once you have that experience.

Good luck out there, wish we payed teachers a higher salary.

> wish we paid teachers a

FTFY.

Although payed exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:

• Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. The deck is yet to be payed.

• Payed out when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. The rope is payed out! You can pull now.

Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.

Beep, boop, I'm a bot

My comment is not minimizing trade jobs, I just want to say there are also other options besides BIW, other trades, and teaching.

Teachers have a lot of different skill sets when you start to look at how to apply them elsewhere- public speaking and communication being pretty high up there. If you're willing to switch career paths, you could also consider something that utilizes that.

I myself am a (currently) ex-music teacher (30 years old). I now work as a beer salesman for a craft brewery. One of my coworkers was a language teacher just last year and is now one of the managers. We make comparable money to what we did with a FRACTION of the mental stress and room for career growth as the company grows. Even the owner was a professor track grad student teaching university classesSide note- Brewing is a pretty big industry in Maine and you could apply your science world knowledge to a new skill set (I know biology isn't Chem, but the processes are simple).

Sounds like you're a bit at the end of your rope with the school system situation, and I remember being there. My advice- if you can take a lateral move or a slight pay cut, take a job that's less mentally taxing so you can figure out what you might want to do!

I originally applied for JAX when moving here, but they only had entry level $18/hr positions.

My concern was that MDI is impossible to find a place to live near. Housing was a nightmare when looking, has that changes recently?

As an apprentice you typically make around 55% of the journeyman wage start, Benefits are a decent health, dental vision, etc (varies by location) but usually pretty solid, average apprenticeship gives raises every 1k hours, it is a 4 year or 5 year apprenticeship and I think lewistons is night school? But I can’t be 100% sure I would call the union hall and ask them what’s up

Depends on location but typically yes, you just have to go in apply, take an aptitude test and interview and then you get put in line

When was the last supply/ support ship built at BIW? Just curious. It's been all Arleigh Burkes and Zumwalts for the last 22 years that I'm aware of.

[deleted]

I’m assuming the ground floor would be a production position? What kind of trajectory could one take into R&D without a science degree and how viable is that really? Wouldn’t these companies pass over you for someone with a stronger background in science?

Not OP but also looking for a possible career change from transportation/supply chain management.

The shipyard froze hiring totally last week. Rumor has it that they have 1,500 more employees than they need. Mostly whitehats.

My dad learned a trade at BIW in the 80s and worked there until retirement a few years ago. My impression is that he really hated it. He felt so disrespected and disregarded by his management, and he felt so out of place among his coworkers - people who were generally crude and cruel to him and thoughtless. And probably most of all it thoroughly wrecked his body. He has been dealing with chronic, untreatable pain as a direct result of his work there since at least the 90s.

I am a white collar professional also struggling with my career options, but after seeing his experience, whatever else happens to me, I will NEVER take that path.

Oribital welding… a couple of the folks from my apprenticeship class just got their UA certs in that shit and they’re gonna be SET, without having to be a goddamn circus director like the route I went going foreman instead of just getting a very specialized skill that is making waves.

no way, I want to do that just to cross it off my bucket list.

Trust your gut OP.

Ground floor can be entry-level R&D technicians, quality, or production.

Starting with a bachelors degree, career progression typically goes something like: technician, associate scientist/scientist I, senior associate scientist/scientist II, principal associate scientist/scientist III, senior scientist, principal scientist, and research fellow/scientist emeritus, or some variation of that based on the specifics of the company.

Also, supply chain/logistics is a valuable skill set in biotech. You might consider keeping an eye out at the same companies I mentioned, as your skill set would likely translate quite well.

Take a look at the “Scientist Associate- Technical Manufacturing” job posting open at Idexx. That’s the sort of thing I’m talking about.

Programming certs are oversold and over-rated, plus you have to compete with some kid out of India who performs the same task at 1/3 the cost. Good luck getting work with Google without having a math, CS or engineering degree.

Our military needs the tools to keep them from being easily killed. Places like BIW, and the folks who work there, make those tools.

BIW has baggage? What would that be, food on the table, a roof over the head, and two cars in the driveway?

And I know welders who left the trade for lack of work.

Have you considered working for the state fish and wildlife (aquaculture and permitting etc)? You can see the state worker salaries for these things online. Some positions are pretty well-compensated and they don’t ruin your body if you exercise regularly.

You don't need to work at FAANG to be gainfully employed in the tech sector. Or even be able to code for that matter.

Lol I edited to clarify

And I had to get a full shoulder replacement last year.

Ones personal experience isn't statistically significant.

Blue collar work is paid for with your body.

BIW will chew you up and spit you out unless you apprentice for the right trade. If there aren't apprentice opportunities for pipefitters, operators, sprinkler fitters, milllwrights, boilermakers don't do it. If you get stuck doing a job like painting, laborer it's hard to move and it will fuck you up. Every job is hard and physical but they aren't going to wear you out if they are investing in you long term, plus you can take those hours and apply them somewhere else or to a different trade if (when) you decide.

[deleted]

As someone who just left an adjacent position at an adjacent employer, this is by far the best answer here. Places like BIW and PNS offer good middle class income with good benefits. They're also potentially soul-crushing and dismal places to work.

I've heard ALOT of bad in B.I.W, alot of drugs.

OK well that Is ike a decade long process lol

If you take the job at biw, and hate it, at least you can enjoy their human litter box.

You might be doing it wrong.

Bullshit. I did it in four years non-union. Union you should be able to do it in 6-7. Maine has an accelerated program for those using the community college (non union route). I personally think the union does a better job with teaching electricians.

Where in Maine? I know Boston Brands pays highly for lab positions and Biology degree is required

Not far from Lewiston. About an hour away from Portland / Scarborough etc

Well it is in lewiston and I think a lab position starts at 26-27 hourly

Then you at least stay in sciences and you learn alot about proofing, turbidity, Brix calculations etc

Yeah, the worst part was watching the apprentices come in every spring all bright eyed and bushy tailed only to get fed the kool aid and within a couple months thet'd be leaning on machines blaming illegals too

Fair enough but I'd never recommend a CC and even with that you have to bust major ass to do it in 4 years so congrats on that. I'd recommend trade schools over a CC any day of the week but the don't have the accelerated program, even though the hands on experience is significantly better.

In the end of the day it's all about what you learn, how much you study and who you work with.

I was under the impression that the Burkes were used to support and do suppilies. could be wrong, heard it here on the yard.

These warships were designed as multi-mission destroyers,[5] able to fulfill the strategic land strike role with Tomahawk missiles; anti-aircraft warfare (AAW) role with powerful Aegis radar and surface-to-air missiles; anti-submarine warfare (ASW) with towed array sonar, anti-submarine rockets, and ASW helicopters; and anti-surface warfare (ASuW) with Harpoon missiles. With upgrades to their AN/SPY-1 phased radar systems and their associated missile payloads as part of the Aegis Ballistic Missile Defense System, the ships of this class have also demonstrated promise as mobile anti-ballistic missile and anti-satellite weaponry platforms, operating on 15 ships as of March 2009.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arleigh_Burke-class_destroyer

None of that sounds like supply or personnel transport to me.

a warship still is a ship, it still can transport people or goods regardless of bells of whistles though?

Yep, you're right. Noah's ark could have conceivably been a warship too.

I appreciate your point of view and if you want to view your labors as part of a humanitarian effort I'll respect that.

How do I get you or one of your brethren to return calls and come inspect the wiring in my house so I know it won't burn down?? I've been there going on 2 years and still can't get an electrician!