Yeah, socialism means being poor, right, that is how it works?

(also not touring, so poor or rich you are not going to see them play anytime sone)

You're just figuring this out?

Yeah, can't understand why they're not using the Fugazi $5 show entry business model....

Can’t be a sell out if you never bought in

It's like that scene in The Wizard Of Oz where the voice says, "Pay no attention to the corporation behind the green curtain!!"

I mean... You know it's expensive to have a show, right? Like, people need to make a living. People other than the artists themselves, too!

Also, criticizing the system does not mean you can't participate in it. I mean, you fucking have to, in order to even survive (and furthermore to get your message out!)

So, are they sellouts? Maybe? But they're the only ones that can k ow that for sure. Can you judge them for any of it? Sure, for yourself. I for one don't think I can blame them for benefiting in quality of life from putting out music and opinions that challenge the establishment.

That's a Dischord Records thing, not Fugazi. Also, Fugazi is a strange comparison considering record sales.

I've seen comments like this for a few years. I've never really followed them but I guess when they started they were more authentic about this then they are now? Quick read on their wiki page says things might be a little more complicated than this title suggests. Not saying they're not sell outs now in the current state, but I didn't know Chris Cornell was involved 20 years ago.

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I don't think they are sell outs because they don't change their opinions or music based on popular opinion. What they are, however, is a bunch of hypocrites.

And when someone posts their own band on here (that makes no money), it’s considered unfair “self-promotion”

Black Eyes are on Dischord, they have a show in DC in April, tickets are $20.

Also I know the disparity in record sales, obviously. But OP is saying Want to see thier show? Better not be poor. RATM aren't exactly touring in vans and loading their own gear. They also can't play tiny venues.

And if they started playing free shows and funded it off their own back and then you never got to see them ever again, that would be more legit right? Are you 15yo or a dumb 45yo?

Would that be you?

Not if you're in government, no. But other than that, yeah you're gonna be poor as dirt historically speaking.

Fugazi have not played a gig in 20 years (saw them on the last UK tour) and tickets were far from $5.

Regards Dischord:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/nov/20/40-years-of-dischord-records

> Better not be poor. RATM aren't exactly touring in vans and loading their own gear. They also can't play tiny venues.

They are not touring at all, so confused as to what the OP's issue is.

Well now I've got some advice for you little buddy...

It's not perfect so I hate it!!!!!!!

Ever been to Europe?

I'm pretty sure nobody thinks what you're referring to is actual socialism.

What you're doing is saying all apples are bad and will always be bad because you just walked past 3 rotten apples in a garbage can.

FWIW I think I'm missing the OP's point entirely.

But an excuse to talk about Fugazi was nice :) Glad you got to see them over there!

Well the title doesn't even say "socialism good", it just says "capitalism bad". Which I agree, it certainly has many shitty aspects, such as hypocritical bands profiting hand over fist while pretending to be against it.

What I have yet to see in my decades of life, however, is an economic system that didn't heavily incorporate capitalism, and wasn't poor as fuck. I'd welcome a counterfactual.

I haven't seen it either. All the more reason to fight for it, no?

Maybe? But there's also the possibility that human nature is flawed to the point where socialism/etc. will never work. Maybe the effort is best spent trying to reform capitalism so that it improves?

I don't have the answer, just going based on what's known.

Yeah, one of the joys of being an old man! :)

Always the downfall of socialism or communism: unsuccessful people being jealous and spiteful towards successful people.

What does the band do with all the money? I don't know, but AFAIK, they earned it and didn't start with any privilege, did they? Are they a band of people from inherited wealth?

>Also, criticizing the system does not mean you can't participate in it.

You're right. OP's post is essentially this.

We have similar views. The current system doesn't work. It's unclear what will work, but trying new stuff will at least get us more information.

It just seems we just disagree slightly on what to try first.

I'm not personally interested in socialism. I just want a sustainable system. If it's socialist then great. If it isn't that's fine too.

Add long as it's fair and sustainable I don't care.

I've always hated that comic. It steamrolls the point the guy is making in order to cast him off as a troll.

The point is (let's use the first example) - if Apple is doing shady things, we can demand they do better by not giving then our money. Under capitalism our money is everything. Our voice, our strength, our bartering tokens. It's literally the fuel capitalism is based on. Knowing this, there is no greater tool than using that money to "punish"/reward businesses.

>so they punished him (not saying unfairly or rightfully, just using an example) by denying him the ability to earn.

Are you sure about that?

Which is?

K... So what about everything else I said? You missed the point entirely, which is exactly why I was hesitant to add that bit.

It was an example and far from the point of my post. Also, you don't have to down vote me for disliking the little comic you posted.

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With that logic, every band on earth that gets paid is a sellout.

I didn't miss your point, the point is that we don't have that much power individually as wallet voters. You can try to "cancel" someone like Louis CK but he will be back. You can demand Apple, for example, to stop using sweatshops but considering it took government action to have them change from lightning to USB-C, us being uncomfortable about it won't do much. Unfortunately.

Yes, we do. Businesses are nothing without sales. It can take time for it to really impact their bottom line, but it will.

The greater problem is that people aren't willing to go without. To be social pariahs at the expense of social clout. Who wants to go without having the things they want? Companies know this, hence marketing.

Shitty ticket prices are nothing new and they can be the most devoted Communists you'd ever seen in your life, they still have to play by capitalism's rules because they live under it. 125 American is still pretty shitty but that's the going right unfortunately. And who knows how much of that is Ticketmaster.

Okay but what are my options? Let's keep using smartphones. I don't get an iPhone, then I can get a Google Pixel. Which is probably made in a similar factory, or Samsung, same deal. The only option that I'm aware of is Fairphone and those are just as expensive and may not work in my country. And most people's phones are tied to their phone provider so they don't have to pay an outright fee of $700 to $1500 minimum depending on brand and going rate in your country.

There are options - buying the phone outright is always a possibility. Sure, it's expensive, but computers are expensive, things worth having are expensive, and positive change doesn't come easy.

Furthermore, perhaps if enough people took a stand against one company, others would see that and start acting accordingly.

What's the alternative you're suggesting? It's impossible to change them so why try? Actually curious. You may need some Franz Kafka in your life.

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It is, but again the only non-sweatshop and non-unethically sourced resources phone maker I'm aware of is Fairphone. It gets even harder when you consider how many lithium mines are mined by like child slaves and in horrible conditions.

I mean maybe but from what I've seen that can only go so far. Maybe you can push a company to stop being homophobic, like say Chick-fil-A in America, but they reserve the right to donate to more conversion therapy organizations if they want to.

I'm not suggesting anything, I just think we don't have as much power as suggested because we're all over the map. You can try social democracy and reform capitalism like parts of the EU but there it took them years just to get Apple to adopt USB-C lol. And lol I tried to read Metamorphosis for the second time a few weeks ago and I cannot get into his writing. I wish I could, it seems interesting.

I didn't say they didn't want to make money, you human meme.

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