Submitted by conifer0 t3_10x2nwy in Pennsylvania
geriatric_tatertot t1_j7qn4tj wrote
More farmland could be put in preservation, but that requires us to pay more taxes. A lot of times that funding is a match between the state and county. My county has very little in the way of local jobs, and we're getting a warehouse built here in the next year or so. If 600 people from here can work there and not travel to neighboring counties for work that's a good thing. I do think in rural counties we need to support housing development density. Folks are in horror at what is happening in a neighboring county with sprawling housing developments on former farms, but fight multi-family developments every chance they get. I don't think they realize that most zoned ag districts allow single family housing by right, usually with 3-5 acres per parcel. Developers have the cash to buy that land, and the houses they are building are way out of most people's price ranges, but being built regardless. 100 acres divided into 20 mcmansions with sweeping lawns is no less of a problem than 100 acres with 2 warehouses on it.
IamSauerKraut t1_j7sgjcw wrote
>More farmland could be put in preservation, but that requires us to pay more taxes.
Would it?
geriatric_tatertot t1_j7shryr wrote
Yes. The state and county essentially buy the land from the owner via an easement. Its usually much less than market rate but not an unsubstantial sum. The farm has to qualify and there is a very long backlog to get high enough on the priority list to get into easement which can take years to decades. More funding would speed the process up. Funding requires a source, and that source is probably going to be through taxes.
IamSauerKraut t1_j7sjqr6 wrote
>The state and county essentially buy the land from the owner via an easement.
You may be right on much of the above, but this blurb is not one of those.
geriatric_tatertot t1_j7sqm16 wrote
Unless you’re doing it via land trust this is the ELI5 of how it works in PA for the counties that have a preservation program.
IamSauerKraut t1_j7sxyaq wrote
No, not it is not how an easement is obtained. Not even a fit with the word "easement."
bhans773 t1_j7t3oin wrote
I think easement is being used correctly here. Some level of government purchases an agricultural easement. It’s essentially a subsidy to the land owner so long as the property remains farmland (or green space in some instances). Should the property transact, the easement goes with it. This would probably require language in the easement agreement that would allow for sunsetting or some other form of release which would likely include a repayment of benefits.
geriatric_tatertot t1_j7u2ed9 wrote
Yes it goes into the deed. Heres a link explaining how it works in PA for a land trust or state/local purchase. https://conservationtools.org/guides/148-farm-preservation-options-for-landowners#heading_1
IamSauerKraut t1_j7u6vdi wrote
>Some level of government purchases an agricultural easement.
Now you have it right. It is not the land which is purchased but the easement on the land. Ownership does not change.
One thing which could be done better? Enforcement of the terms of the easement. Right across the street from Cumberland Valley High School in central PA, a conservation easement was placed on a historic horse farm. Years later, the property was sold. And warehouses are now under construction on that very property.
sg92i t1_j7swcen wrote
> More farmland could be put in preservation, but that requires us to pay more taxes.
A lot of these farms were profitable and don't have to be converted into something else (including more heavily regulated "preserved farms").
I'll give you an example. There was a very controversial warehouse proposal near Kutztown around when COVID started. Whether or not it gets built is an off topic tangent and its not exactly clear what's going to happen there.
But rather than talk about that part I want to talk about why the farmer wants to sell to a warehouse builder in the first place:
It comes down to zoning. The farm has been profitable and stable for hundreds of years at that location, but in recent times it became rezoned as industrial use (against the owner's wishes). Which means a significant property tax hike. Now throw in the farmer wanting to retire, the lack of younger people wanting to be farmers (for various reasons), and its "screw it I'll sell to someone who will actually use it as what its zoned for and cash out/retire."
Now why & how did a multiple-centuries old farm become zoned as industrial in the first place? Harrisburg. Its politics plain and simple. Harrisburg's vision for the future of Pennsylvania's economy in places like Berks, the Lehigh valley, and elsewhere is to attract warehouse jobs. Harrisburg went to the local municipal governments and said hey we're demanding you zone X amount of your territory as industrial to attract these sweet, sweet warehouse jobs [that pay crap, treat their employees like crap, and congest the shit out of our roads]. We don't care if your residents hate it, this is the future we want.
The 81, 78, 33 corridors were heavily pushed towards rezoning with the explicit goal of building these warehouses. Rt-222 isn't by any stretch of the imagination part of this original "vision" but it was collateral damage from shit-policies.
PennDot envisions building a 5 lane highway circle on the east end of Kutztown on Rt222 to accommodate a 300-acre, 4-warehouse mega-facility with no plans to expand the road infrastructure of Rt-222 between there & Allentown due to the delusion that the trucks will never want to travel east (lol). They expect them to go west, hook up with 81, go down to 78, just to cross east towards Allentown & etc.
geriatric_tatertot t1_j7u4338 wrote
Zoning changes dont mean a property tax hike. Any farm over 10 acres is going to be in clean and green so its tax burden is minimal. The issue is their children aren’t interested in farming so there is no one to hand the land down to. That means when they are ready to retire the land will go up for sale to the highest bidder. In many municipalities (mine included) the local zoning/planning commission -muni not county, zoned this land industrial as way to comply with the MPC and also block industrial development within the township. Its going to be a farm forever right? The proliferation of warehouses, which meet the industrial zoning definition, has meant that land can be bought and developed for that purpose. It can also be used for industrial farming, but those companies prefer to work with farmers to minimize liability not own the land themselves. Right now warehouses have the money to buy the land. 10 years from now it could be some other industry competing for it, for better or worse.
[deleted] t1_j7srngn wrote
Most people don't really think about it beyond green=good. Many Americans think cities and dense areas are bad for the environment.
Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments