Now pass recreational cannabis to make up for lost revenue.

Is this The Onion?

How about taking all that tax collected and fixing the roads?

Sorry I don’t have an award to give you.

Interesting that 19 Democrats voted to keep our gas taxes the second highest in the nation. I looked over the bill and it's a straight forward two page single subject bill - no pork or anything.

I wonder if the Democrats in the State House will also oppose reducing the gas tax.

That's the crux of it. Where does the weed tax money get allocated? PA has more miles of roads than all of New England combined.

I've got nothing against legalization, but a big portion of that tax revenue has to be allocated to mundane infrastructure costs, at least if one considers it an alternative to gas taxes.

Short term relief at the pump VS long term ecological disaster.

I wouldn't be surprised if it passes the house as well with such a slim majority. Maybe I'm wrong but I imagine there are a handful of Democrats that would vote yes, if nothing else because of fear of losing their seat next time around. Regardless, it's something that's unpopular for that majority of voters. I would be shocked if it doesn't end up getting lowered. If it doesn't it will certainly be an issue that Republicans will harp on the next election cycle.

But how will the state police fund themselves now? :/

Hole up - this legislation would fix the wholesale cost at 2.99/gal.

What is it now? Articles like this drive me batty - give me a metric being legislated with no comparison...

Honestly, it's not even 25%ing it.

100 percent true.

There will he huge budget gaps and then people will try to make up for it by cutting programs that help people.

All the natural gas, casinos, and medical cannabis we have and they still can find a balance? Wtf

What makes you think most stoners aren't using the mmj program?

Edit: Down votes for a question? This sub sucks so much ass.

…or we can just use it to subsidize old people like we do with every other funding stream in the commonwealth

How are we going to pay for cop pensions now!?!?

Interesting. But wondering how are we going to fund the police?

Do we charge extra to the townships that no longer have police?

Beware the devil’s lettuce!

Reducing revenue without any spending cuts, just caused deficits…no pork, just debt. Somehow, Republicans can’t get this

Republicans are the one who passed the tax in the first place

What makes you think paying $175-$225 per year in license renewal fees isn't a barrier of entry to many in our state?

The tax wasn’t the problem. The PSP cutting line ahead of PennDOT is.

They’re screwed either way. Either they’re painted as loving high taxes, or accused of defunding the police.

Congratulations to everyone who drives a huge car

Without legalization, you have no other avenue but mmj? Maybe start sucking ass.

You’re being downvoted because you speak like Dwight schrute

Well we currently have a large surplus in money thanks to Governor Wolf’s leadership. The budget has been handled fantastic the last eight years. A lot still needs fixed so we will have to wait and see what happens under Shapiro.

Make local municipalities hire their own police force and make the local residents pay for it.

It seems there's some confusion over the headline. This would decrease the tax to 2022 levels. On January 1st there was an automatic 3.5 cent increase. This bill would remove the automatic increase.

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Hey, hey, hey they're on "fixed incomes" unlike the rest of us moneybags with unlimited funds, lol.

Why require a license in the first place if they’re pretending it’s medicinal only? I’ve never needed a license for Tylenol. Either make it recreational or decriminalize if it’s just for the revenue or let people get their medicine.

It’s about 3.21/gal right now.

👌👍

Oh yes, I'm sure there are hundreds of thousands of stoners in PA not using the mmj program. And there is so much revenue left on the table from them?

Folks are really salty that I question the amount of additional tax revenue?

Bravo 👏👏👏

Because MMJ users have real medical issues that only a bong hit will cure, they’re not stoners. My uncle louie has the gout and the only relief he can get is from his daily Volcano sesh. Lol.

Never said it wasn't. I just question how many people are kept off the program and how much additional revenue it would bring in. Not that we can prove it either way but I'd be happy to make a bet that 85% of stoners have their mmj card and are using the program. I just can't see a huge influx in tax revenue. I'm all for recreational. Folks are getting their pitchforks out over their weed 🤣.

Bro, nearly everyone I know who smokes weed gets it the old fashioned way, they don't bother with the ridiculous hoop jumping of the MMJ program. I also have friends who get stuff over in NJ and bring it back. There's no question PA is missing out on a giant revenue stream.

I never said it wasn't a dumb program. I just think it's already heavily used and most recreational users already are on it. Folks have lost their shit over a question about market penetration 🤣. Y'all need a joint.

Wow, I was going to reply and be like "the gas tax is used for road maintenance" but then I looked it up and you're right, a big portion goes to state police. Wtf?

> I also have friends who get stuff over in NJ

That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard unless they are real close to the border. Prices over there suck ass. Plus the gas to get there. No thanks.

Realistically this would cause huge problems for communities. Small and financially distressed communities wouldn't be able to pay for it and jacking up tax rates would be a huge burden on people and/or incentivize them to leave.

You could counter that with an even stronger emphasis on regionalizing police departments, which I suspect is what would happen should the state police have to downsize.

Yeah but the vast majority of revenue is coming from the stoner's, not the small % of users with serious illness. It's a recreational program with extra steps for the majority of users.

Thank goodness I'll save 35 cents every time I fill up my gas tank now. Watch out, Warren Buffett!!

Wasn’t disagreeing with you, figured I could expand on the point. Don’t even smoke due to work, just think the whole thing is crazy.

PA also has the most expensive tolls by about 2x the next closest state

They're in Philly, so yeah, literally right on the border. I'm not saying people drive from Erie to NJ...

Im with you, my Lol at the end was supposed to indicate sarcasm. Its all bullshit. The black market is still very strong in PA.

And it doesn't cover the roads so...

Its not that simple. Especially with MJ, a lot of legacy states are going to learn the hard way that pot taxes isn’t going to pay the bills.

This boarders on mathematical illiteracy

Your entire argument is utterly insane

No. Fuel being a few cents more expensive will not cause a never ending loop of cost overruns

Your idea is essentially saying most of the cost is from fuel....its not.

Listen pal, the PSP isn't going to fund itself.

Weed isn't really legal in PA.

Weed is legal in PA like Oxy is legal in PA. Oxy is actually more legal than weed in PA. You don't need a special card to get Oxy, just a prescription.

Medical weed should not be taxed at all.

The answer to the question is, many stoners do fake illness to get the weed.

But that doesn't matter.

Medicine should not be taxed and a medical program should not be used instead of a recreational program. Weed should be legal...not sorta legal with a bit of lying and what not. It should be legal. We should be able to buy a pack of weed at wawa...or at least at a regular dispensary, or even state store if you must, like they have in civilization.

[deleted]

Shhh.. your facts will ruin people's ranting

Small population counties and municipalities have long relied solely on PSP to police their areas. So these areas are saving their citizens tax money by offsetting those costs into everyone else in the state through the gas tax.

Yeah, it seems like this article is really burying the lede.

I see that we’re slowly regretting completely shifting our infrastructure to cars without any real alternatives in most places. You can cut the taxes as much as you want but it’s not going to help with the core issue that most people are completely reliant on their cars for basically all of their trips in much of the US. I guess we never learned from the oil crisis in the 70s.

I'm not saying it's not dumb. I'm saying it's already in use and there is little additional revenue to be had. Everyone is being all sorts of tribal any this question lol.

Gotcha. With prices that still seems insane though. Why do they do that?

Or we can burn it to continue expanding free state police coverage for mostly Republican townships who are too cheap to pay for thier own police force but like to talk about fiscal responsibility all the time.

Weed also isn’t protected like Oxy. You can be fired for the prescription for weed but not for Oxy.

It's intentional, they use the deficits they create as the excuse to cut social services they don't like such as educational services, public health, food stamps, etc.

It like they want a dumb, poor, population living on the edge at all times.

Fill the damn craters in the roads!

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> Medical weed should not be taxed at all.

Apparently there is a 5 percent gross receipts tax, but MMJ is exempt from the state sales tax so it's kind of a wash.

https://www.revenue.pa.gov/TaxTypes/MedMarijuana/Pages/default.aspx

Can't use banks

Can't buy edibles

People are being denied jobs because they possess a MMJ card https://www.spotlightpa.org/news/2022/09/pennsylvania-medical-marijuana-job-fired/

What about all the people who are curious to try it, but aren't going to go out of their way to get diagnosed with anxiety (or are 'lucky' enough to have a more serious medical issue), get approved for MMJ by a certified MMJ doctor, pay the state $50 for a card, wait two weeks for it in the mail, and then fight through the first-timer scpheel at the dispensary?

What about the tax money wasted on policing/arresting/convicting marijuana use?

There is a ton of tax revenue yet to be captured by legalization. I'm glad you're not opposed to legalization, but you're getting downvoted (by others) for stating your opinion as supposed fact. https://www.cato.org/tax-budget-bulletin/budgetary-effects-ending-drug-prohibition here's an article that discusses decriminalization vs legalization and the impact on tax revenue, in case you'd like an informed opinion.

The pa gas tax also helps to fund the state police.

> Hole up - this legislation would fix the wholesale cost at 2.99/gal.

That confused me, it has to be a misunderstanding because there's absolutely no way that PA can fix the price of gas.

I'm guessing the wholesale tax fluctuates based on the market price, which is why it shot up at the beginning of this year because the average wholesale price shot up last year.

So the legislation is probably saying that for the purposes of the amount of the wholesale tax, we're just going to pretend that gas is $2.99/gal forever.

Like half the gas tax goes to the state police

I'm not a smoker, but I was under the impression that a medical MJ card afforded one certain protections as far as jobs go. This is based on hearsay, so I have no idea. I just find this surprising.

Edit: Jesus Christ y'all, what are you downvoting? I'm just trying to get clarifications. Also, What a backwoods, puritanical, state we live in where people can get in trouble for DUI even if you're not high.

No protections are allocated to anyone with a MMJ card due. Only thing my card is good for is buying it.

There is an argument that gas taxes in the US are far too low, which encourages consumption and discourages efficiency, contributing to climate change and slowing the transition to greener alternatives.

That view is going to have more support among Democrats, especially those in deep-blue urban areas. But Democrats representing more suburban swing-districts really can't afford to adopt that sort of stance.

Great now start slimming down the fees on traffic tickets. Why are people getting dinged for ems fees on minor violations?

Every little bit helps, and cannabis should be legalized for it's own merits regardless of the revenue potential.

That said the activists obsessed with this issue tend to vastly overstate the revenue potential.

Just as a comparison of size, over a decade PA diverted $4.2 billion from the infrastructure piggybank funded by the gas tax to the state police. As I recall, that amounted to about a quarter of the fund.

Since Colorado legalized cannabis in 2014, they've collected $2.4 billion in total.

I think people tend to forget that cannabis is kind of a niche recreational product, and inherently can't produce that much tax revenue in the grand scheme of things. It's almost like... the average person buys a lot more gas than weed.

And now the optics will be the Republicans trying to lower it and the Democrats keeping it high.

lol friend, the PA turnpike is literally the most expensive toll road in the world.

The US is also significantly more spread out than comparable countries, forcing us to have to travel more often and further than people living in comparable countries.

The days of people living very close to their jobs are over. My job is a 30-45 minute from where I live, and I cannot afford to live closer to where I work because of the cost of living in that area. 40 or even 30 years ago, that would’ve been the exception.

Now it is more of the rule.

The gas companies will just charge more. You're already paying it, why lower the prices?

https://triblive.com/news/pennsylvania/pa-roads-bridges-to-get-extra-175m-as-funding-is-freed-up-from-state-police/

There was already $175,000,000 freed up to go back towards the Motor License Fund by reducing allocation to the Pennsylvania State Police. The Democrats wanted a one time, and one time only, allocation of $225,000,000 from the state general fund to the Motor License Fund.

This was not a way of increasing revenue to compensate for the decrease in taxes - it was just a one time transfer of funds.

We're talking about gas tax here so I expect the recreational bros to spam up this topic with their opinion on that matter instead, instead of discussing the article.

Asking a question is fine. You're being downvoted for asking in bad faith. It's clear you already had your answer decided, and starting with "what makes you think..." is antagonistic.

Funding PSP out of the motor license fund was a legislative decision

Because if they lower their price more than their competitors, they get more business.

Legacy States — pot is not going to pay the bills. Weed shouldn’t even be taxed. I should be able to buy a sac, a cart, and some dabs form Giant Eagle with my OJ.

We could tax millionaires but gawd forbid we shift the tax burden to the wealthy. Instead lets keep the boot on the necks of the working classes.

Seriously — people are bit overzealous thinking about revenue from pot taxes. Then go cite some rural state or state like Colorado that ain’t The Commonwealth.

Toll I-80.

Me looking crude prices at prepandemic prices, but gasoline still 75‰ higher Yeah okay.

We are protected from the crime of possession within state lines. Cars and transport need much more clear definition, we need job protections, and we need less hostile police.

To say we have no protections, doesn’t help. We’re patients, not whiny stoners. We need to be clear and concise if we really want improvements to the system rather than people continuing to fuel their negative stereotypes.

We can buy it and possess it. That’s step one. We need to keep working to improve education of our people and our lawmakers especially. That’s the only way we’ll get things like home grow, price clarity or corporate accountability.

There are employers who will treat it as a regular prescription and ignore positive results but there is not any sort of blanket protection. Hell as a someone who has their mmj card, I could catch a DUI at any point even if I'm not actively high, as you can test positive day/weeks later depending on usage.

Tolling the interstate is the opposite of taxing the wealthy. Its taxing the working class.

I live in a county where all local police forces have been disbanded. Every single township or borough depends on PSP because they can't afford them, it's ridiculous.

[deleted]

Retail prices are higher than pre-pandemic levels, but not 75% higher, according to the EIA. Also trending downward sharply. So gas companies are lowering prices.

Depending on the officer you are pulled over by they can still take my medication. They won’t do that with pills. Don’t be dumb. Saying I’m a whiny stoner for being a realist about comparing my protections to Oxy is hilarious. I can’t take my medicine with me on vacation like an Oxy script. I can be criminalized for medical marijuana for it being opened and no longer sealed. I open my pill containers multiple times with no risk of punishment.

What does that have to do with my point about reducing the gas tax?

I pay 50 to 60 bucks for an oz costing 200 in PA. I am not saying how I get it without the taxes and other fees. But it's perfectly legal.

Pretty sure they don’t get charged.

The US is not serious about climate change.

No shit but wtf does that have to do with taxing the wealthy and a toll road

[deleted]

Maybe by doing FUCKING ANYTHING.
If I drove the speed limit around the Capital Beltway I'd be crushed to death. Never see any police there ticketing anyone. Ever. Idiots in BMWs drive down I-83 at 90MPH weaving in and out of traffic like it's a goddamn NASCAR race. No cops. No tickets. I see more PSP in sleepy little towns like Red Lion and Dover than I ever see on the state highways.

PSP could fund themselves in a fucking day if they wanted to actually work.

That’s what we’re all complaining about. Funding PSP from these funds instead of charging the munis that refuse to fund their own departments and instead rely on PSP for everything.

[deleted]

Because black market is still way cheaper

Anybody saying otherwise is Misinformed. You do get worker protections as long as you do it off the clock. I’m pretty sure it is also written that you can’t be denied employment based solely on a failed drug test. I remember reading it when I got my Med card. However, what I also did read is that there hasn’t been a case of it being taken to court so there isn’t any case law to back it up.

A lot of that goes towards the state police.

Just spitballing here but what if our state government were to lift restrictions on our sheriff departments and give them back their investigative and arresting powers? They already have the same training as local and state police no? Let them patrol the streets that local municipalities and townships cannot cover. Keep the state cops to state roadways and assisting local jurisdictions on cases/incidents when asked by those jurisdictions.

A system close to what our neighboring states do.

PSP could down size no? Just a thought.

The thing about toll roads in PA is that you don't have to use them if you don't want to.

No, it isn't.

Back in 2008 a cop got shot on the Parkway West outside Pittsburgh and since that happened the cops don't pull anyone over for anything. You can do 130mph out to the airport if you want. They'll come scrape you up if you crash, but until that happens they won't lift a finger.

You have to drive from Philly to Pittsburgh. How are you getting there? Philly to Allentown? Or Lehighton...how are you getting there? Private helicopter?

Gas should be highly taxed. People should be penalized for driving gas guzzlers.
 
If you can't afford to fill it up, don't drive it.

This situation has only existed since WW2. We could go back to pre-war living patterns if we wanted. The status quo just makes a lot of money for the right people at everyone's expense.
 
> My job is a 30-45 minute from where I live

 
Sounds like hell.

US-22 to US-322. If you can't afford the turnpike don't use it. Simple as that. No one's holding a gun to your head and forcing you to use it.

Because you get a quality, reputable, consistent product from a known quantity without the hassle of going through the whole PA MMJ hoopla and getting a doctor signoff when they don't actually have medical reasons.

[deleted]

> jacking up tax rates would be a huge burden on people and/or incentivize them to leave.

 
Sounds good to me, there's no reason for anyone to live in most of Schuylkill County in 2022.

I think you're missing the point

I think you're missing the point.
 

You're paying for convenience. If you can't afford it take the long route. No one's forcing you to use it and you aren't owed a cheap superhighway.

Dude, it literally is. Just Google "what is the most expensive toll road in the world"

https://vista.today/2021/03/report-pennsylvania-turnpike-the-most-expensive-toll-road-in-the-world/

Except it isn't, by mile. You're spouting Facebook grandpa stuff. The Tappan Zee bridge is 1400 feet long and costs nearly $5 to cross.

So if PA were to tax you more than 2x the next closest state, you'd move right? Bc no one is forcing you to live here.

Is someone holding a gun to your head and forcing you to take the turnpike?
 
If you can't afford it, don't use it. I don't complain that I can't afford a Ferrari.

Wow. That's not even close to the same thing. I'm honestly dumber for having participated in this conversation. Thanks..bye.

If you can't afford it, don't use it. It's that simple. No one is forcing you to use it.

That's a fucking bridge.

And the Turnpike is a 360 mile superhighway. If paying 31 cents per mile to drive end-to-end is too expensive for you, don't use it. No one is forcing you to.

A lot of people don't have the means to just get up and move, but if you want to screw over impoverished people, having this attitude is a great way to do it.

Rural Pennsylvania is highly subsidized to begin with, and they use their outsized weight in the legislature to fuck over the urbanized and productive parts of the state. I'm not going to cry for them and I don't owe them a thing.

The cool thing about traffic violations is that you don't get any tickets if you follow the law.

That commute is pretty average for someone in PA. I mean people choose where they live. How exactly would you realistically get people back to “pre-war living patterns”

I haven't driven to work in over a decade and my life is way better for it. Driving is a fucking chore.

 

You'd return to pre-war living patterns via high density housing, public transit, and clustering residences around business and commercial areas. Look at any pre-car small town in rural Pennsylvania.

 
The current status quo where people live an hour from where they work in an artificial country estate is unsustainable and the sooner we end it, the better.
 
The fun thing about threads like this is reading posts from people who choose to live 40 miles from their job cry about how they have to pay to fill their 12mpg gas guzzler. No one is forcing them to live that way but they think that everyone else should pay their way.

> Depending on the job about 20-25% of construction costs are in fuel

 
Wait, are you saying that people have to pay for what they consume? Fucked up if true.

Republicans (via Mitch McConnell) have openly said that their game is to hurt the country so they can point at whatever they fucked up and say it doesn't work. They're pretty open about it.

Remembers when bars in allegheny county bitched that when the county made a drink tax it would raise their prices as they'd lose business.

also remembers when the county lowered the tax they didn't lower anything

This is largely an issue with how the state( and most of North America) has developed itself. See this video series on land development for more information. It’s really interesting.

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJp5q-R0lZ0_FCUbeVWK6OGLN69ehUTVa

In 2010 (IIRC) there was a government shutdown that resulted in the feds not collecting the per-ticket tax on plane tickets.
 
The airlines just temporarily raised the price for the duration of the shutdown.
 
Businesses aren't going to charge you less than you've already shown you're willing to pay.

We're about fifteen years into nationwide oppositional defiant disorder, too. If someone with authority says that we should maybe cut down on the amount of gas we consume, 30% of the country will buy extra gas to pour into a ditch out of spite. Great country we've got.

This is BS. Plenty of destitute people have managed to move thousands of miles throughout history in huge migration waves. Today's poor don't move because they are subsidized enough to stay comfortably in place, even if the conditions aren't great.

Wasn’t me that got the ticket. Sister got one doing 60 in a 45 on a back road

Maybe she'll do 45 mph next time.

You're one avocado toast away from billionaire-hood.

In the post-WW2 era, the United States (via FHA) made a conscious decision to channel white people into artificial car-dependent country estates, and channel non-white people into city housing developments like Cabrini Green.
 
The United States also made the decision, via tax policy, to incentivize businesses to relocate near these artificial housing developments at the cost of cities. Surburban shopping malls were an accelerated depreciation scheme.

 
People did not choose to live this way and drive 40 miles a day organically, the government made it happen.

And once they do that the pumpers will keep the price the same and pocket the 3.5 cents

> People did not choose to live this way and drive 40 miles a day organically, the government made it happen.

Oh man, I've got some bad news for you about who "the government" is in a democracy...

The US is a plutocracy and always has been. Decisions are made with a mind to how the rich benefit, and autocentric development has worked out really good for them.

Ok, so the fuel costs of a construction project will go up 1%, making the entire thing cost 0.25% more, leaving the fuel price increase in the clear to the tune of 75% of the increase.

Are you in support of increasing income tax and paying for PennDOT out of the general fund? Because that's the trade-off. Other states have higher income taxes and pay for their DOTs as part of the normal budget, while we have the lowest flat income tax in the country and try to fund PennDOT with just fees and gas tax, which the State Police then take.

I have to pay $13 a day in tolls to go to work. It is absolutely insane.

Sure let me just add another hour to my already 2 hours of commuting a day.

A few months back the news had a huge guy in a huge truck complaining about the cost of gas. He pointed at his similarly oversized son and said, "gas is so expensive I can't buy him a bag of chips anymore!!!" I don't think his kid needs more chips.

Definitely

Nobody owes you a free superhighway to make your poor life choices easier to bear.
 
If you can't afford it, don't use it. No one is forcing you to use it.

It is because that's what people voted and continue to vote for, simple as that. It isn't some natural order or outcome, there are similar democracies with fantastic infrastructure 🤷‍♂️

Well, that should change. If you want extra services from the Highway Cops, you should be on the hook.

Medicare for all and legal marijuana are two of the most popular policies in America, across all sides of the political spectrum. They're never getting instituted because Washington represents the rich, not you or me.
 
The choice to strand white people out in segregated, car-dependent country estates was a deliberate policy decision that has been incredibly destructive to the American countryside and American way of life, but it benefited the right people and that's why it was done.

 
When you've got a spare hour or so, watch this:
https://www.kpbs.org/news/2022/01/24/independent-lens-owned-a-tale-of-two-americas

These small towns are run by Republicans so it's OK.

You also can't get a DUI days after using Oxy or be denied employment for taking it weeks before.

It is an at will state. They can simply say they found a better fit. Don't tell any employer you have a medical marijuana card. Best bet is to get clean or use fake piss. Protect yourself because the state won't.

I completely disagree. Sure they are examples of a popular policy, but people vote for who they vote for and it's on all of us individually for getting what we deserve for those decisions. No person gets a special excuse for having a leopard eat their face just because a few rich pricks use their resources to convince them that it's patriotic to jump in the cage.

A few hundred billionaires can't control an unwilling population, only a willing one.

It's so odd that a country that beats its chest about personal responsibility struggles the most with this concept.

Did you watch that documentary yet?

 

The electorate has a whole host of problems that we'd like to see addressed. This incoming House of Representatives is going to spend two years talking about Hunter Biden's dick instead. What the people vote for and what the people get are two very different things.

Will do, thank you for sharing :)

>The Transportation Committee also passed a bill that dedicates gas tax revenues to road and bridge safety projects.

Yeah ok, until the PSP needs to cover the second half of their budget.

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Weed has zero protections, the same with Tobacco. While one may be legal for rec use over the other, there are some jobs that will not hire you if you smoke Tobacco. Fucking weird world we live in. They can even fire you if they implement a policy about no tobacco smoking, does have to give you time to kick the habit.