Comments
RoyGBiv-Devoe t1_j4vrjts wrote
From the photos it appears that dude was using a harbor freight drill press with a cross slide vise and end mill to "machine" the receiver cavities. That's a sketchy looking setup.
here's how the ATF determines whether a lower reciever is classified as a firearm or not:
FiendishHawk t1_j4w363j wrote
Well if he was really good at machining he could probably have got an honest job doing it that paid better.
dockellis24 t1_j50bfa1 wrote
As a felon he couldn’t
FinancialLab8983 t1_j4vmy8d wrote
Damn it!!! If we only had more gun laws that made it illegal for felons to buy weapons and sell them. Oh wait.
Zenith2017 t1_j4w4bih wrote
Doesn't the article point out that the whole problem is that buying the parts to make your own is unregulated and near-untraceable
Knarrenheinz1989 t1_j4wok9y wrote
You can make any gun "untraceable" with a file.
Zenith2017 t1_j4wp8tj wrote
I'm aware
[deleted] t1_j4xym4j wrote
[deleted]
largeroastbeef t1_j4xubzk wrote
I mean the fact that a felon can apparently just have guns parts shipped to their house then assemble sounds like an issue in the system that should be fixed. Unless your okay with felons having guns. Are pro gun people for felons having rights to guns too? Honest question
SwagM0ns73r t1_j4xyne9 wrote
Sometimes, depends on who you ask. If you asked me, I would say if you committed a non-violent felony you should be in the clear.
Some other people are under the impression that if someone served their time, they should not be barred from owning firearms. Which then leads about the other end of the conversation, are prisons truly “reforming” prisoners?
Long story short, depends on who you ask.
largeroastbeef t1_j4y0cnt wrote
I mean I think it’s pretty clear our justice system is set up to be punitive and not actually for reforming. I would argue that felons are more likely to be violent after experiencing jail/prison but that’s a whole other discussion.
Thanks for your point. One thing that’s annoying is politics is when people don’t understand what they are talking about. I’m just trying to gain a better understanding of guns and their laws to inform my own opinions.
I’ve always been left leaning but I’m for the legalization of drugs and prostitution and kinda feel it would be hypocritical to be for them and against guns. I’m really for less laws and mainly turned off by the Republican Party because of all their regulations on personal freedoms like drugs and abortion.
SwagM0ns73r t1_j4y1ria wrote
Yeah, I agree with your point on the justice system not being reformative which is why I believe what I do.
Gun laws in general aren’t too bad when looking broadly at them. Also, laws varying from state to state do not help anyone lmao.
The basic gist of them are (not a lawyer BTW): You can’t own a gun if you’re a felon or do drugs (medical weed included) All firearms purchased at a retailer or gun show (in my experience, I’ve attended quite a few gun shows and my friends and I filled out background checks on everything we’ve purchased) will need a background check Private sales (me to a friend (or stranger)) do not require background checks and as long as the seller has no reason to believe that the buyer is a felon they are allowed to sell to any buyer USUALLY (not always), the part of a gun that makes a gun a gun is the lower. You can order any other gun part online with no background check, lowers are the only thing required to have your background checked.
I’m not a fan of the Republican Party either, I just like guns lmao.
largeroastbeef t1_j52ckod wrote
That shit kinda blows my mind. Like I understand it’s not actually illegal but it feels and sounds hella illegal for me to just sell some random dude a gun in the middle of some parking lot lol.
If that’s illegal then how do organized crime get arrested for trafficking weapons? It sounds like selling guns is legal to do.
I’ve never really been interested in owning a gun because I know how much trouble it can instantly get you in with drugs around. I have a long history with drugs in my younger years so I wasn’t trying to get hit with some crazy sentence just because I had a gun with me the same time as drugs in my car.
SwagM0ns73r t1_j52z4xf wrote
I am talking somewhat outta my ass on this point and somewhat not, intent to distribute and sell firearms as a non-FFL (FFL is a license for a retailer to sell firearms) is what gets you trafficking. Me having 2-3 guns that I don’t want anymore and selling them to randoms is different from me having hundreds of guns going in and out of my house monthly you know? That and organized crime is probably selling to known felons. Prolly a mix of the two if o had to guess.
[deleted] t1_j4zzw38 wrote
[deleted]
01kos t1_j5000i8 wrote
Hey here’s some reading comprehension tips for your next time https://www.scholastic.com/parents/books-and-reading/reading-resources/developing-reading-skills/improve-reading-comprehension.html
FinancialLab8983 t1_j501h1x wrote
HeReS sOmE rEaDiNg CoMpReHeNsIoN TiPs her der. Eat my ass loser.
01kos t1_j502z5o wrote
Generally it’s best practice to take paragraphs one at time when starting out so I’ll help you
- Have them read aloud. This encourages them to go slower, which gives them more time to process what they read and in turn improves reading comprehension. Plus, they're not only seeing the words — they're hearing them, too! You can also take turns reading aloud
Kabloosh75 t1_j4xm193 wrote
I really find the term ghost gun to be stupid.
Considering rifles aren't registered in PA that would make even serialized AR-15s bought at the gun store through a background check ghost guns.
There is no central state or federal database of these weapons. The best you get is the 4473 is stored at the gun shop it was stored at. They only need to hold onto that form for 20 years so after that they can just destroy them.
When a serialized gun is used in a crime yes the investigator can run the number to see if it was reported stolen but they otherwise have to call up the manufacturer and ask which gun store they sold it to then go to that gun store to look at the 4473. From there they call the original purchaser and that guy may have sold it to some random dude in PA because guess what, it's a rifle so you can sell rifles to other PA residents without needing to drag them to a gun store to run a background check.
So those looking to hide their gun purchases from the government in PA at least is almost pointless. Everyone knows the PSP has an illegal registry of pistols. When we fill out that form they are most definitely storing that information somewhere. It doesn't matter.
The point is ghost guns is stupid, but the media will continue to use the term like assault weapons. News flash! Assault is an action. All weapons are used to violently attack someone or something! All weapons regardless if they are a club or a nuke are used to assault things. They are used to do damage!
largeroastbeef t1_j4xu1t8 wrote
So then what do you think the purpose of this guy making guns was?
Is it an easier way for felons to get guns? Is it cheaper? Maybe by avoiding taxes? Idk anything about guns
SwagM0ns73r t1_j4xy62g wrote
Prolly selling to felons. Also, I think the article mentioned he was already a felon? Which would’ve restricted him from buying guns to start with.
Just some knowledge for you to know: If you’re buying a gun through any “actual retailer” you gotta go through a background check and same goes for gun shows. Private sales (me selling to a friend) on long guns (rifles and shotguns) do not require background checks.
largeroastbeef t1_j4xzj08 wrote
I think they said felons are fine to buy gun parts since they are not actually a gun
SwagM0ns73r t1_j4y0hwr wrote
Correct “Gun parts” are anything from triggers to complete uppers. Some guns are different than others but for the sake of this conversation, the only part on a gun that legally defines it as a gun is usually the lower. When purchasing a lower you need a background check (unless it’s an 80% (a lower without the holes drilled out)), any other part (triggers, barrels, uppers) do not require background checks.
In PA, you are legally allowed to build your own firearm (which includes 3D printing a lower as long as you’re not a felon) and are not required to register it anywhere.
The issue specifically in this article was the guy was ordering uppers and printing lowers.
(Also, not really giving out legal advice but to cover my ass I’m not a lawyer. This is what I know from my personal experience/research)
Kabloosh75 t1_j4xyslx wrote
I'm not sure. It's probably harder today to get a gun as a felon these days than it was 50 years ago simply because up until I believe 1964 background checks weren't even a thing.
largeroastbeef t1_j4y0o76 wrote
I kinda want to learn more about gun buying process. Maybe guns are taxed highly once they are assembled and regulated as a gun but you can get around this by making them yourself? Idk.
Seems like just doing private sales and reselling them would have been much easier for this guy
Kabloosh75 t1_j4y352k wrote
So only a certain part of the gun is the actual gun which has the serial number on it.
For an AR-15 that's the lower receiver..
That's the gun. That's the part that you need to pass a background check to buy it.
The background check consists of a call to a system where the store contacts to say yea or nay. You fill out the form 4473 and they usually use your social security number or your name if you don't want to give your SSN. The problem there is that if your name is John Smith there is a good chance there's a few John Smiths out there with a criminal history so you may fail a background check.
It's not complicated. There isn't any additional taxes unless you're buying an NFA item. NFA items are machine guns, short barrel rifles, short barrel shotguns, "any other weapon," and suppressors. Suppressors aren't actually guns and they don't actually silence the weapon's gun fire. They just lower the sound to a low enough dB level to where you may not need hearing protection.
Buying a gun is pretty easy. Just have the money and interest and you can get one. Just be able to fill out a form and pass a basic background check. To be a prohibited person you would need to have been convicted of a felony, some misdemeanors (ones usually involving domestic violence) or be involuntarily committed. Having a DUI on your record wouldn't prohibit you.
In the case of this story he was machining lower receivers. These things are actually pre-machined bricks of metal that you need to do the rest to make it into a functional lower. This actually is not illegal. You can manufacture your own personal firearm. You just can't sell them without a license. That's the real crime here.
You can even 3d print lower receivers. All the other parts you can freely purchase online and have delivered to your door.
KREDDOG79 t1_j4vgff2 wrote
Everyone needs a hobby
B0MBOY t1_j4vxn69 wrote
The article is wrong, there are restrictions on who can buy or own or sell firearms, serialized or not. An unserialized firearm, or “ghost gun” is still a firearm and all normal laws apply. If you can’t legally own a gun you can’t legally own a gun serialized or not
FiendishHawk t1_j4w31b0 wrote
The point of the article is that if you can’t legally own a firearm you can still legally buy the bits to make a firearm. If you then assemble them into a firearm you have committed a crime, but it seem it took the cops a few years to figure out he was doing this. The guns also had no serial numbers so crimes committed with them would be hard to trace.
B0MBOY t1_j4w9lwy wrote
You can legally buy car parts even if you can’t legally own a car. Unless you wanna ban cnc machines, 3d printers, and every piece of steel and wood in the aisle of home depot, you can’t effectively regulate things that aren’t firearms yet
Maybe actually deal with felons instead of letting unrepentant unreformed felons loose again and again
FiendishHawk t1_j4whir1 wrote
So… how would you have dealt with this felon?
Gul_Ducatti t1_j4wilm5 wrote
As stated in the article, he used a harbor freight drill press and a vise with an X and Y Axis slide on it to do his manufacturing. He did not have an expensive, accurate mill or a 3d printer. What he did have access to were the components required to make the parts.
Stop selling 80% lowers, close the loop holes and it would be harder for low level guys like this to produce firearms.
As a 15 year Machinist, I can tell you it is a lot harder to go from a piece of raw stock to a lower than it is to go from an 80% to a completed firearm. The learning curve from scratch is immense.
Knarrenheinz1989 t1_j4wo2t0 wrote
You can make a firearm with any old pipe from Home Depot. It doesn't take much skill either. Hell, even fully automatic weapons can be produced quite easily from non gun parts.
Gul_Ducatti t1_j4ws1j5 wrote
Which is not what this particular guy did. According to the article he was purchasing parts kits to produce specific pattern firearms.
Yeah, you can make a zip gun or a pipe gun with minimal effort and knowledge, but that is a much different type of firearm than being produced.
Knarrenheinz1989 t1_j4wwlgt wrote
If making AR-15 lower receivers was too difficult for him, he would probably produce a receiver for a different kind of firearm, such as an AK (which uses a stamped receiver, which is made with a bent piece of sheet metal) or a Luty submachine gun (which was designed to be made with common hardware store parts).
Gul_Ducatti t1_j4wyfe0 wrote
That’s the thing, it was not difficult at all according to the article.
But that is besides the point. What if was just harder for someone with a felony record to be able to purchase the components needed?
Sure, the guy might be able to get what he needed to make a type of firearm from the local home goods store. However, many of these illegal firearms manufacturing stories do not point out that they were making pipe guns or zip guns or what ever other improvised weapon, they are almost always someone mass producing AR, AK or handgun patter firearms.
Because of the easy access to the components and the general effectiveness for the effort to make.
Knarrenheinz1989 t1_j4x1u62 wrote
Law abiding gun owners purchase parts for guns all the time because parts wear out or break. It would be completely ridiculous to undergo a 50 dollar background check to replace a 10 dollar part. Not only that, but you have to travel to a gun store or gun show to get the check done. Plus, most crime guns are still factory made firearms despite the buzz surrounding "ghost guns".
>However, many of these illegal firearms manufacturing stories do not point out that they were making pipe guns or zip guns or what ever other improvised weapon, they are almost always someone mass producing AR, AK or handgun patter firearms.
The mainstream media sensationalizes such stories because they want to scare the populace and pass more gun control. Most stories I see about pipe guns come from outside of the United States, in countries with far stricter gun control. In some third world countries, handmade guns used by criminals look almost indistinguishable from the gun it was copied from.
signedpants t1_j4xe96g wrote
This is definitely a level above my old felon uncle who made "shotguns" with pipes in his garage.
Knarrenheinz1989 t1_j4wopkl wrote
>The guns also had no serial numbers so crimes committed with them would be hard to trace.
Do you know what a file is?
_Abobo t1_j5atix2 wrote
The tracing bit is really not that important. Anyone can file a serial number off any gun in a few seconds with a dremel and that’s a billion times easier than assembling a gun. If the gun has been recovered so that cops can run the number, the only marginal benefit is that they can charge whoever reported it stolen (or a dealer if there’s a latter) with some sort of negligence.
M2hBDf1Nhw1VB7 t1_j4wfn1l wrote
> in what officials said is another example of how the largely unregulated and untraceable ghost guns continue to infiltrate the city
> Luis Soto, 29, was arrested last week and charged with 11 counts of felony illegal gun possession, criminal use of a communication facility, and related crimes after city and state law enforcement agents discovered he had been illegally assembling and selling the guns.
Sounds like they're already regulated…
hemiones t1_j4wmc4l wrote
If only they could have tracked all of the legal unregulated gun parts he was getting to make the illegal guns…………
He was able to buy all the parts legally… I guess we should just keep assuming people don’t buy the gun parts to make actual guns huh?
M2hBDf1Nhw1VB7 t1_j4wn3h1 wrote
The only part they're aiming to regulate is the unfinished frame/receiver (aka the 80% gun). For just a nominal amount of additional effort and a $3000 CNC you can make one from scratch. So unless we start serializing blocks of metal, then criminals will always get illegal guns, but the hobby of gun smithing enjoyed by legal citizen such as myself becomes more expensive.
Also with polymer framed guns (Glocks for example) a decent 3D printer can also make the frame from scratch for far less cost and skill than the setup of a CNC.
hemiones t1_j4wo8pt wrote
I agree with you that criminals will always find guns. But we’re not talking about criminals are we. We’re talking about every day people selling guns illegally to criminals. And I’ll tell you…. some things should get regulated now. Because this whole generation of kids that’s growing up having to do active shooter drills, and scared for the life every day in school. Once they can vote, they are going to take away guns for sure.
M2hBDf1Nhw1VB7 t1_j4wq2zf wrote
He’s not an everyday peson though. That article said 5 felony burglary convictions. He was a prohibited person that cannot legally own a firearm.
As far as school shootings go, I don't think we should mandate staff carry guns, but we should offer the option. if not enough staff do it, then get armed guards. We protect our money and our politicians with weapons. Why not our kids?
Regarding your very last sentence, the right to keep and bear arms is a natural born right protected from the government by the second amendment. We are a constitutional republic and not a democracy. The majority cannot vote away the rights of the minority because of this. The 2A and guns are here to stay (not even getting into the argument over the sheer number of civilian guns out there). Fortunately so are the other rights in that document and we should be proud of that. I'm not fully opposed to regulation, but I'd rather see regulation that stops bad guys with minimal interference on law abiding citizens.
As for "ghost guns" in particular, home made firearms predate us even being a country, and their very nature of being homemade means you cannot effectively ban them. They will always exist. Fortunately despite what politicians claim, they are used in under 1% of all reported gun crimes, because they are not practical to make when stealing a gun is easier.
I’ve enjoyed our discussion but I need to return to focusing on my work. My Reddit break is over for now.
PoodlePopXX OP t1_j4vh1n0 wrote
My highlight:
Philadelphia police have said they’ve seen a stark uptick in the number of ghost guns recovered in crimes. In 2018, police recovered just 12 ghost guns, but in 2022, that number jumped to 575 — a more than 4,600% increase.
Whole article:
A Philadelphia man was operating a gun-manufacturing facility inside his Kensington home, prosecutors said Tuesday, in what officials said is another example of how the largely unregulated and untraceable ghost guns continue to infiltrate the city.
Luis Soto, 29, was arrested last week and charged with 11 counts of felony illegal gun possession, criminal use of a communication facility, and related crimes after city and state law enforcement agents discovered he had been illegally assembling and selling the guns.
Prosecutors said Soto ordered dozens of gun parts online, then used a drill press to make the necessary holes in the metal and plastic parts, before assembling the weapons — a process that took less than 30 minutes.
Because the weapons were assembled using individual parts, they are are considered ghost guns, which have no serial numbers and are largely untraceable by law enforcement. There are no federal restrictions on who can buy ghost gun kits or parts.
Soto was manufacturing the weapons inside his home on the 1900 block of East Tioga Street in the Harrowgate section of Kensington, an area facing some of the highest rates of gun violence, largely driven by the open-air drug market.
Officials could not estimate how many weapons Soto assembled and sold, or how long he had been running the operation. But inside the home, police recovered a slew of items, including a recently assembled handgun, dozens of gun parts for handguns and AR-15s, an incomplete AR-15, and boxes of ammunition, said William Fritze, head of the Gun Trace Task Force in the District Attorney’s Office.
At a news conference Tuesday, Fritze said it was one of the largest weapons-manufacturing arrests his office has seen.
Soto, who has five felony burglary convictions, is prohibited from owning or assembling firearms. But because there are no federal regulations on who can buy ghost gun kits or parts, he was able to order the parts online without incident — something that gun safety advocates have long said is a loophole that undermines public safety.
“This is the problem we’re seeing again and again, with ghost guns getting into the hands of felons,” Fritze said. “There is no way for us to even know how many firearms Mr. Soto put out on the street before we were able to stop it.”
Philadelphia police have said they’ve seen a stark uptick in the number of ghost guns recovered in crimes. In 2018, police recovered just 12 ghost guns, but in 2022, that number jumped to 575 — a more than 4,600% increase.
That mirrors a national trend. A recent ATF report found that ghost gun recoveries increased 1,000% between 2016 and 2021.
Last year, officials arrested a Philadelphia man for using a 3-D printer to build, assemble, and sell ghost guns.
Firearms are typically manufactured by licensed companies and are required to have serial numbers, which officials use to trace the guns back to the manufacturer, the firearms dealer, and purchaser.
Ghost guns, though, are often sold in DIY-style kits at gun shows or online. They are typically made with what is known as an 80% frame or receiver, which acts as a base that holds all the parts of a functioning gun, like the trigger. Federal law does not consider unfinished frames and receivers to be firearms, so background checks are not required to buy the pieces.
Groups like the National Rifle Association and the National Shooting Sports Foundation have long emphasized that building a gun at home has always been legal, and that the problem is not the guns but the people who use them in crimes.
Last year, the White House announced new regulations requiring sellers to put serial numbers on the pieces sold in the assembly kits. The sale of individual parts, though, do not fall under that regulation.
In Soto’s case, prosecutors said he was ordering the individual parts online under an alias. Officials could not comment on whether he was acting alone, though no one else has been charged.
Soto was held on $875,000 bail, and remains in custody at the county correctional facility. At the time of his arrest, he was wanted on a bench warrant for violating probation in an earlier burglary case.
He was last arrested in 2013 on multiple burglary charges. He was sentenced to up to three years in jail, and three years’ probation.
Soto’s lawyer from the Philadelphia Defender Association declined to comment.
Published Jan. 17, 2023 By Ellie Rushing