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ReturnOfCE t1_j4xc9wv wrote

Reply to comment by Little_Noodles in In first act as governor, Josh Shapiro opens Pa. jobs to people without college degrees by OhmyMary

> Yeah, in an ideal world, young people would get the kind of broad education and life experience that comes with a college education (or similar life experience) before diving into the workforce. > >

I'd argue in an ideal world, we'd let young people get the education/experience necessary to exceed in the workplace by letting them dive into the workforce and giving them a chance to grow.

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Little_Noodles t1_j4xd3z4 wrote

Eh, I know I worked all throughout high school and it didn’t do shit for me other than provide spending money. And that’s been true of a lot of my work experience since then.

But college was actually a pretty meaningful period of personal and intellectual growth for me. In a world where I could have skipped right into the workforce, I’d be a wealthier person, but I don’t think I’d be a better person, and I definitely wouldn’t be able to think through things or find information I want as well as I can now.

The goal of life experience for young people is not just about succeeding in the workplace, which is a place I’ve found to be not particularly conducive to personal growth or developing skills that aren’t directly and immediately marketable to your specific workplace.

My brother skipped college/trade school and went right into the workforce, and he’s still more or less the same dipshit he was in high school. Not a lot of growth there of any sort. He doesn’t have my debt, but I wouldn’t trade places with him.

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[deleted] t1_j4xg16h wrote

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Little_Noodles t1_j4xi1xo wrote

Fine.

See and Stevic, Celinda R., and Rose Marie Ward. “Initiating Personal Growth: The Role of Recognition and Life Satisfaction on the Development of College Students.” Social Indicators Research, vol. 89, no. 3, 2008, pp. 523–34 and Bok, Derek. “Character: Can Colleges Help Students Acquire Higher Standards of Ethical Behavior and Personal Responsibility?” in Higher Expectations: Can Colleges Teach Students What They Need to Know in the 21st Century?, 58–79. Princeton University Press, 2020.

My personal, anecdotal experience absolutely matches traditional expectations and more rigorous studies about college and similar institutions (like say, national service programs - see Frumkin, Peter, and JoAnn Jastrzab. “Personal Growth.” in Serving Country and Community: Who Benefits from National Service?, Harvard University Press, 2010, pp. 104–32.) in providing more meaningful spaces for intellectual curiosity and growth, as well as personal growth, and providing tools for learning independently as an adult, than does moving directly into the workforce. That’s one of the stated missions of higher ed. No workplace I know of makes that a mission in anything other than the most vague lip service.

In an ideal world, we’d make room for that experience for everyone that wants it, and would benefit from it, and not make that experience cripple them financially for the rest of their lives.

But we should also make it possible for people to skip it if that’s what they want, or if that’s not an environment in which they’d grow as people, and if they can do the job without it, especially since we don’t live in an ideal world.

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Jiveturkwy158 t1_j4xi1po wrote

Just validates different strokes for different folks. Some grow better in different environments. Plenty of people don’t grow in school and only in the workforce as well.

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