1714alpha t1_jcu54zu wrote on March 19, 2023 at 4:14 PM

Any time a federal agency starts to receive an avalanche of funding, my first thought is that it's starting to get tied into "defense" spending (ie, militarized). The very first point they make is about information technology being 'critical', which I take to mean that the NSF is becoming the R&D department in the cyber war with China, Russia, etc.

Someone please help a jaded elder millennial to see this as anything other than a cynical ploy to leverage resources in an ongoing political/economic/technological conflict.

noobtastic31373 t1_jcwkq27 wrote on March 20, 2023 at 2:43 AM

>please help a jaded elder millennial to see this as anything other than a cynical ploy

... mind if I sit and wait with you?

[deleted] t1_jcx3l4s wrote on March 20, 2023 at 5:56 AM

[removed]

vasya349 t1_jcx005d wrote on March 20, 2023 at 5:11 AM

I agree, but is it such a bad thing if competing looks like building better computers? Just like national laboratories, a lot of things they do are justified by defense but ultimately have huge positive externalities for related fields. Plenty of industrial and infrastructure investments are justified for defense but are really more useful for other things.

-OnlinePerson- t1_jcz8oks wrote on March 20, 2023 at 6:08 PM

Fertilizer was made at the same time as some chemical warfare products

roguetk422 t1_jcwti4w wrote on March 20, 2023 at 4:01 AM

The internet was started by the DOD to streamline data sharing primarily for the purpose of intelligence gathering on the USSR, then expanded by the NSF when its developmental implications became more clear.

This expansion in funding is primarily motivated by chip manufacturing and industrial competition with China so yeah its leveraging resources in a conflict but a shit load of our steps forward as a species have come out of such circumstances

Vendetta2112 t1_jcy9btp wrote on March 20, 2023 at 2:08 PM

Of course i know that, I work at MIT, not Walmart. But that doesn't mean that i approve of everything that goes on in university research. I feel if a private equity company wants to invest in research they're going to want to see profit back, that's it. No profit no company, or like SVB, no Bank.

I believe that if the government invests in research, the government needs to have its money paid back, with profit. Otherwise the government is investing in research companies that will benefit from and get rich, and in effect the government are subsidizing private companies profit.

I know the argument, that all of society benefits, companies get rich, floats all boats, but when i was born out debt was at 0.5trillion,when I graduated from high school the national debt was 1.5 trillion, and today it's at 33trillion. We can't keep spending and printing money as the debt will never come due.

If the govt was making residuals from the technology that it helped develop and gave away to companies that did profit, our dept would be much less.

Yeah, I have a clue, I just don't always agree with the party line.

As we sit on the precipice of another bank collapse and depression, it seems a lot of people very high up, that should have a clue, as it's their job, in fact don't.

So don't act as if this is an easy fix or that we should keep going the way it's been going, because there are a lot of people that can see that things are not working very well and in the long run things will have to change.

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Misfire2445 t1_jcye869 wrote on March 20, 2023 at 2:45 PM

No wonder they expanded by me.

SettingSavings7677 t1_jcyfzb9 wrote on March 20, 2023 at 2:59 PM

NSF Executive Salaries

Vendetta2112 t1_jcuq6cr wrote on March 19, 2023 at 6:34 PM

In the real world we all have to make due with less, up our profit, work harder and do whatever to increase value. And steal market share.

Any fed, state or local govt job just sucks off the teat of the people, there is always more and never any accountability.

Nothing against science in general. But the cost of college skyrockets while most Univ continue to fund pointless research, overstaff, salaries shoot up they waste money than just charge students more.

It doesn't have to be that way.

Dapper_Face7389 t1_jcvwwvt wrote on March 19, 2023 at 11:38 PM

Who made lithium ion batteries, through a 40 year program, of which now the free market is making insane profits on? That’s right, the government did, because it isn’t pointless research and the free market simply isn’t capable of such large investments into speculative research. Socialist or capitalist, it’s idiotic to act like investment into your country’s technology is “pointless”

Viffer98 t1_jcvzf9t wrote on March 19, 2023 at 11:57 PM

So much of what we enjoy in our modern life is due to science sponsored by government. You don't have a fucking clue what you're talking about. Medicine, communication, transportation, energy; all have at their core technologies developed by or in partnership with government. This website exists due to technology developed by the government.

Vendetta2112 t1_jczy5am wrote on March 20, 2023 at 8:51 PM

Of course i know that, I work at MIT, not Walmart. But that doesn't mean that i approve of everything that goes on in university research. I feel if a private equity company wants to invest in research they're going to want to see profit back, that's it. No profit no company, or like SVB, no tech Bank when the techs are struggling.

I believe that if the government invests in research, or if the government/defense has a breakthrough that they are sharing for the good of "the people" than the government needs to have its money paid back, or more likely, a share of the profits. Otherwise the government is investing in research while companies that will benefit from and get rich, are in effect being subsidized by the government.

I know the argument: that all of society benefits, companies get rich, floats all boats, but when i was born our debt was at 0.5trillion,when I graduated from high school the national debt was 1.5 trillion, and today it's at 33trillion. We can't keep spending and printing money as the debt will never come due.

If the govt was making residuals from the technology that it helped develop and gave away to companies that did profit, our dept would be much less. The defense dept put satellites into orbit and developed GPS. Does Garmin and Google maps pay the government for usage?

The government funded almost $30billion in COVID vaccine research, while Moderna made over 18b, while Pfizer showed record profits of $100B, with $57B from COVID in just one year, but those profits will stretch out years. I'd just like to see the government (my government) have some of its (my) money reimbursed and I'd like to see it's investment (with my tax dollars) earn revenue downstream, so the (my) government in in better shape moving fed. The drug companies still make money. I just don't think that the government is a bottomless pit of free money, and given what we spend on technological development, we should be in a better position to reap some real reward to help the bottom line.