Submitted by wicke_s t3_yiwf8p in UpliftingNews
H0vis t1_ium80ve wrote
Reply to comment by lorenzotinzenzo in The shrinking ozone hole shows that the world can actually solve an environmental crisis by wicke_s
Neither does abandoning fossil fuels, or at least minimising their use. Not now we have the technology for renewables anyway. Thing is there are millions of dollars being spent every day to convince everybody otherwise.
​
Fundamentally making the shift could be done in a very short amount of time if the political will to do it ever overwhelmed the lobbying effort to stop it happening. All the necessary technologies already exist.
Funktownajin t1_iumht3h wrote
How would we make the shift to electric cars? We don't have the power grid necessary for the massive increase in electrical demand, both locally and in terms of overall power generation.
What technologies exist now to supplant the shipping and aviation industry with carbon free alternatices? None, really, that are close to being scalable.
It's not as simple as you make it seem even if the political obstacles were removed.
The developed world can't just continue business as usual by pretending we can electrify all our problems away while living the same lifestyle
H0vis t1_iun0nzo wrote
That's the neat thing, we don't shift to electric cars. Not en masse anyway.
Cities go to cycling. There's decades of work been done showing how this is done, and it works, it's proven tech. Won't be a one size fits all, won't work as a copy/paste of Amsterdam everywhere, but a majority of cities can make that switch and will be much better for it.
Intercity travel goes high speed rail. More freight to rail as well. This is how it used to be done before freight was handed off to trucks.
Maritime shipping, we just have to eat the pollution on that side of things, offset it as much as possible with more localised manufacturing, but its here to stay for now. The good news is we're not going to kill the planet just with container ships. Ditto medium/long range passenger aircraft.
The planet can take a certain amount of abuse, we don't have to turn into a planet of blue Avatar weirdos overnight to beat this thing.
Funktownajin t1_iun94x4 wrote
Pretty sure mass cycling is an overhaul of the developed countries lifestyle.
High speed rail takes decades to build, also requires lots of electricity and steel etc. Rail is more efficient that truck transport but not massively so. It still pollutes a lot.
Like I said, these aren't easy choices. And nothing you listed will stop climate change.
H0vis t1_iunf9jz wrote
I mean, it is an overhaul, but in a good way. Ten thousand people die to air pollution from cars in London alone.
High speed rail it depends on the country, most places have railway infrastructure, it just needs updating.
I never said this would be easy or comfortable, but to be clear this isn't a choice any more. Modern life is going to change whether we want it to or not because of climate change, so we might as well make some changes ourselves on the off chance that kids born right now don't die in a desert.
​
It's like, the scientists have been saying we can take maybe one or two degrees more temperature increase before we basically kill everything on the planet. And even now, where I am in southern England for example, temperature records were smashed in summer, we effectively haven't had an autumn in terms of the temperature dropping, and according to the weather forecast it's going to be at least a week into winter before we see the temperature drop below ten degrees Celsius.
Point is, it's already way too hot. If this is how the weather is going to stay (let alone if it gets worse) then that represents an overhaul of lifestyles either way, because everything is going to be on fire.
Funktownajin t1_iunhx2l wrote
Ok I'm actually advocating for an overhaul, and abandonment, of the developed world's lifestyle. That was the original point of the first comment you replied to when you said that wasn't necessary. High speed rail just means adopting the least efficient form of rail so we can continue our fast paced, travel everywhere lifestyles. It sounds good and easy that it could be a solution but it's not.
Where are the actual, difficult, questions? Things like embracing population decline/veganism, ending any and all subsides for animal agriculture and electricity, banning international tourism, construction moratoriums, and massive increases in taxes. They aren't really talked about because they actually require more sacrifice than people are willing to make. ive realized that almost anyone still eating animal products while talking about techno solutions to climate change is basically a massive hypocrite ignoring the easiest solution right in front of them.
H0vis t1_iunpo2c wrote
If all those measures are necessary then they will happen, or I guess we die trying, but you're right they are a much harder conversation.
The question of food is a big one and you're right it's going to probably be the hardest to swallow. The key will probably be in the economics of it. Ending factory farming as a viable business model by appropriate taxation for the land use and emissions will send meat prices through the roof, but that's kind of where they have to be. People tend to be more willing to accept the idea of 'I can no longer afford this thing' rather than 'this thing is banned'.
The benefit is that it will actually be easier to feed everybody in the world if we're not also trying to feed billions of livestock animals as well. Big efficiency saving.
nagashbg t1_iup3273 wrote
Aviation is a luxury, in many cases the travel is not essential. As for the ships, have you ever heard of wind powered ships?
Funktownajin t1_iup4247 wrote
That's my point? And what are these wind powered ships? Surely they can replace all the super tankers and cargo ships currently in use /s
LALA-STL t1_iumd077 wrote
Except:
- Cost-effective carbon capture, which would be a huge game changer.
- Cold fusion. Problem solved
aldergone t1_iumn1v0 wrote
Today there are approximately seven commercial CO2 EOR projects in Canada, including the largest in the town of Weyburn, Saskatchewan which is operated by EnCana and has sequestered over 10 million tonnes of CO2 since operations began in 2000. The second-largest commercial CO2 EOR project in Canada is run by Apache Corporation at the Midale field in southern Saskatchewan. The Midale project began commercial operations in the fall of 2005, and is predicted to sequester more than 10 million tonnes of CO2 over the life of the project.
cold fusion - really
LALA-STL t1_iuo6hgi wrote
Way cool!
Now I’m wondering … How impressive a number is 10 million tonnes?
SuperNintendad t1_iumdb7r wrote
Ok you have 3 years.
LALA-STL t1_iumdfuw wrote
Better get on this. Hold my beer
Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments