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PHealthy t1_j8agln0 wrote

Reply to comment by hodlboo in What makes a strong immune system? by hodlboo

With no context, no one can really answer this question without just referring you to a textbook.

Immune systems are not "strong" in the sense of a muscle. Good immunity is a balanced response to appropriate stimulation. Any over-response typically either results in morbidity, e.g. eczema, Crohn's, or mortality, e.g. cytokine storm.

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hodlboo OP t1_j8b17fz wrote

Wouldn’t a strong immune system be one that responds appropriately in the 5 ways you listed?

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Toches t1_j8b5zcj wrote

The problem is, if it's too "strong", it starts going after things that it shouldn't, which is why we have autoimmune disorders like:

Addison's disease - where your immune system attacks your adrenal glands, and ruins your cortisol production

Celiac Disease - or gluten allergies (or any allergies for that matter)

Myasthenia Gravis - Where your immune system attacks the bridge between your nerves and muscles, and gives you paralysis when trying to use your muscles repeatedly

Edit: I see that you mightve replied to the wrong reply, and I also just re-explained what PHealthy already did.

I would use the word "Effective/healthy" instead of "strong", and the main ways that people say you can support an effective and healthy immune system are essentially as follows.

Sleep / Hydration / avoiding serious diseases by things like vaccination, as your immune system cant tell the difference between the original thing we vaccinate against, and the vaccine (most of the time, usually natural infection gives a stronger CD8 T-cell response, which is what tells infected cells to lock themselves down and self-destruct without leaking anything out.)

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[deleted] t1_j8bic95 wrote

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greatbigdogparty t1_j8bi9oh wrote

That's a normal immune system. People are living to 90 with all those nasty germs out there. These are people who don't even take vitamin C, prevagen, Zinc, Boost, or have regular spinal alignments and colonic irrigations! Like Toches says, do you want to turn it immune system into a caged rabid weasel that will attack anything that moves? Actually that is what some cancer immune therapies do, but they can have unpleasant to devastating toxicity. Makes sense if you need to do it to fight a fatal cancer, but not a bad head cold.

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hodlboo OP t1_j8c218s wrote

But not all immune systems are alike or normal, so what makes for those that are less effective, in the sense that the person gets actually sick more often? (Again, other variables like diet and exercise and sleep and age being equalized if possible - looking for info from scientific studies)

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GenesRUs777 t1_j8d07ro wrote

Lets simplify this greatly.

The immune system is a very complex interplay of just about everything in our lives. We have components that just are, and dynamic components which react to stimuli.

It is very unlikely for two healthy people where one gets sicker than the other to have a truly pinpointable problem, unless they have an undiagnosed biochemical/immunological problem.

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hodlboo OP t1_j8d8ukw wrote

Thank you, that’s helpful. It sounds like it’s too complex and individualized for us to have answers beyond generalizations at this stage of scientific knowledge.

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GenesRUs777 t1_j8dclvp wrote

Not really - we know the immune system quite well, you just can’t point to any one problem based on the question you are asking.

Almost 60-70% of medicine comes down to the immune system in some form… either too proactive (lupus, MS, Myasthenia Gravis… etc.) or not good enough (cancer, infection… etc.)

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hodlboo OP t1_j8ddq8w wrote

But that’s just it, we can’t answer the question about the biggest factor that makes an immune system most effective in its specific context. For example an immune system that very effectively fights off viruses and bacteria so that the human is not often sick, but also does not overreact and create auto immune disorders.

I would love to get pointed towards scientific studies or knowledge about which factors have the largest impact, for example between two healthy people, and by healthy I mean in terms of lifestyle, can specific colonizations of good bacteria cause disparities in how their immune system fight off viruses and bacteria? Can this have an impact that is statistically notable among other variables? Or are there genetic markers that make certain immune systems more effective across the board, meaning a person doesn’t get sick often, doesn’t have auto immune diseases, and also doesn’t get cancer?

The data to answer such questions would ideally control for demographic factors like age, poverty level, etc. and self-reported behaviors related to a healthy lifestyle. I recognize this is a pipe dream in terms of scientifically validated data but I am looking for any evidence that attempts to answer this question.

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GenesRUs777 t1_j8desoo wrote

Your question is too broad.

That is what I am telling you.

This can be eventually boiled down to nature vs nurture (this is the crux of your question), which is largely an unanswerable question.

We know that good genetics on its own does not stand to be a perfect scenario, we also know that perfect health doesn’t work either. What I am saying is it is both in unison to provide success, and not one or the other - hence the question of which provides the largest benefit is more or less is not a useful question.

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greatbigdogparty t1_j8da9sx wrote

Jane rides the crowded train to work taking orders at subway. Bill works alone at home. Jane gets a lot of colds Bill doesn't. Does bill have a better immune system? After 30 head colds over 4 years, Jane has a variety of antibodies to rhinoviruses. She doesn't get sick as often as the new hire. Does she have have a better immune system? Or a normal immune system with more training? Asthmatic smoker Jim gets COVID and dies. Healthy Joe gets it and is under the weather for four days. Is that the immune systems fault for Jim?

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