Submitted by TheBloxyBloxGuy t3_11mdtz4 in askscience
Tyrosine_Lannister t1_jbjcvyo wrote
Reply to comment by mothmvn in Is there a fertile creature with an odd number of chromosomes? by TheBloxyBloxGuy
I feel like this ignores the common ancestry of all life, though.
Like, sapiens-neanderthalensis "interbreeding" is a great example.
We diverged for a while, likely just due to geographic isolation, then re-crossed, and now a significant fraction of people are "hybrids", even if neanderthal proper aren't around anymore.
almightySapling t1_jbkhsfx wrote
Was there a period where sapiens and neanderthals couldn't interbreed? I guess what I'm trying to understand is what formally makes them different species in the first place.
Seems to me that "hybrids," as a concept, have less to do with biology and more to do with our arbitrary classification of it.
Rather_Dashing t1_jcym0rf wrote
Species is just an arbitrary classification. Interbreeding is only one factor used to determine what is a species. Its thought that only female neanderthal human hybrids were fertile and not males, so that one justification for considering us seperate species. Just how likely an offspring is to be fertile could also be taken into account. If two species have to breed a million times to produce 1 fertile offspring, it doesnt mean the two are the same species, there is never going to be considerable gene flow between those two groups.
[deleted] t1_jbjf25d wrote
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[deleted] t1_jbkgubu wrote
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ukezi t1_jbknqm4 wrote
Our current definition of different species required then to not be compatible and apparently sapiens sapiens and sapiens neandathalensis were compatible at least to a certain point.
ScipioAfricanisDirus t1_jblw9du wrote
There isn't really one authoritative "current definition" of a species the way we're taught in lower-level science courses, at least not one so clear-cut and universal. If you ask a molecular biologist, a botanist, a zoologist, an ecologist, a geneticist, and a paleontologist to define a species you'll get six different, and sometimes contradictory, answers. Hell, if you ask two biologists in the same field you'll occasionally get competing answers.
These different definitions are called species concepts, of which probably the most common is the biological species concept. This is the one that you're referring to, which defines species based upon reproductive isolation. But it's not a perfect nor universal definition; it's entirely useless for asexual organisms, isn't informative in cases of horizontal gene tranfer, can't be directly tested in certain circumstances like when dealing with fossil species, and even breaks down with extant sexual populations in situations like ring species or many cases of hybridization (which we're learning is a lot more common and complex than previously thought). Other species concepts work better when dealing with asexual populations, or extinct groups, or when working specifically at the genomic level.
Most biologists work within the framework of whatever species concept best fits their field day-to-day as a shorthand but recognize there's a lot of nuance to the biological reality. That is to say, it's not as simple as can interbreed or can't.
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