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aliquotiens t1_jdrdrba wrote

Elephants can move quickly, but quadruped gaits like gallop, canter, trot etc refer to the mechanics and the way that the feet fall - they aren’t about speed. Elephants can’t canter or gallop the way hoofed animals can. Interesting article about the mechanics of how elephants ‘run’

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[deleted] OP t1_jdrexbs wrote

Thank you for your reply, I understand what you said. But from the video, this elephant's gait really look more similiar to a canter or a gallop than a walk or trot.

edit: typo, And I just want to clarify that I read the article, but the description is different from the elephant in the video, so I just get confused and want to discuss about it.

Science people shouldn't discourage discussion. Never know my curiosity can give me so many downvotes.

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LovitzInTheYear2000 t1_jds5txu wrote

It’s hard (sometimes impossible) to see the true mechanics of an animal’s gait with the naked eye. It wasn’t until the late 1800’s, through some revolutionary technological advances by Muybridge that we learned exactly how horses’ legs are positioned in a walk, trot, gallop, etc.

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pennyraingoose t1_jdtn8xz wrote

I just watched a film about Muybridge on Amazon and it was so interesting. Until his photo studies, we really didn't know what a gallop looked like. Looking back at earlier war paintings with galloping horses, their legs are all splayed out like they're jumping over a hedge, but in reality they're curled up under the body when they're all off the ground.

He was an interesting character too. Definitely worth a watch.

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athomasflynn t1_jdrmq9r wrote

Consider yourself corrected, you are wrong. Their legs aren't biomechanically capable of it at any age.

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[deleted] OP t1_jdrnqns wrote

[removed]

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Constant_Breadfruit t1_jdrrnkf wrote

This is not very satisfying but it does not have a name. Elephants are unique in their size. I watched the video closely a number of times. For part of the charge, the footfall pattern indeed matches a gallop. But you’re only halfway there because all 4 feet need to be off the ground at some point and that can’t happen. This gait as far as I can tell does not have a name in English.

noun: gallop the fastest pace of a horse or other quadruped, with all the feet off the ground together in each stride.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/elephant-locomotion/

https://www.animatornotebook.com/learn/quadrupeds-gaits

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[deleted] OP t1_jdtky6k wrote

This answered my question. Thank you very much.

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Van-garde t1_jds85xl wrote

The double-suspension is wonderful. I also found the camel at pace very pleasing. Thanks for sharing

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FickleSycophant t1_jdtxf0y wrote

So the word “gallop” has been around and used to describe the fastest pace of a horse for a long time, but it’s my understanding that we didn’t discover that all four feet were off the ground at the same time until the early days of photography demonstrated it. So it’s hard to believe that the term gallop requires all four feet off the ground when we didn’t even know horses did that until maybe 150 years ago.

Edit: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/how-19th-century-photographer-first-gif-galloping-horse-180970990/

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d4m1ty t1_jdrqngm wrote

Elephant wasn't galloping in the vid. A gallop requires the animal to have all 4 feet off of the ground at the same time. Animal must be fully airborne. Gallop has nothing to do with speed, it is a terminology that defines 4 suspended feet while running.

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billyhicks69 t1_jdrq2rb wrote

Your link doesn't work. But as the other commenter said, a gallop is when all 4 feet are suspended in air at the same time, and elephants aren't capable of doing that.

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TheresNoAmosOnlyZuul t1_jdst6i3 wrote

Honestly it looked like that elephant might have some hip problems. It did t wanna move it's back legs separately. The definition of a gallop is that all four feet are off the ground at the same time which is a physical impossibility for an elephant. I'd say it's entirely possible that an elephant can do a trot. I'm unsure about a cantor.

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KimberelyG t1_jdthm3d wrote

In OP's video example, that elephant's front legs are hobbled - that's when you rope or chain together (as in this case) a pair of legs to restrict an animal's natural range of motion, movement ability, and speed.

You can hear the chains rattle as the elephant moves, as well as see the hobbles, especially when the animal is close to the camera, like around 25 seconds into the video. The hobbles are causing this elephant to have an unusual gait.

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TheresNoAmosOnlyZuul t1_jdubn83 wrote

Ah. I didn't have sound on. That makes perfect sense. Personally I wish we could have more respect for elephants freedom. They're too intelligent for us to just have as pets.

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backroadtovillainy t1_jdtr62l wrote

The elephant in your video is not a good example because it's front two legs are hobbled together by chains. You can see them through the dust just barely, and hear them in the sound. This is not a natural movement by an elephant.

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[deleted] OP t1_jdttj4a wrote

I am agree that the gait is not natural. But actually my point is many sources say elephants are physically incapable of catering or galloping because of their anatomy. Isn't that's mean he should not be able to run like that at all even when forced?

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Lucifernal t1_jdtuaaf wrote

It doesn't matter what you think a gallop is. People may use that word loosely all the time. An actual gallop, however, requires all four feet to be off the ground at the same time. Elephants are physically incapable of moving in this way.

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[deleted] OP t1_jdtw8rc wrote

I don't think it is the exact same gait as gallop, I just see the way he run look similiar to gallop or canter of other animals so I asked. You are right about people use the word gallop loosely. But I understood it now.

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backroadtovillainy t1_jdu56vj wrote

A lot of animals can be forced into unnatural movement like this elephant. Horses bounce or hop on their front legs the same way when hobbled.

But it's not natural, and causes a lot of painful wear on their bodies from long term unnatural movement. No wild elephant would get around this way because it probably hurts. Imagine how sore you would be if you had to hop everywhere and couldn't walk? Just because you technically can move that way doesn't mean you ever would.

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[deleted] OP t1_jdu5fkg wrote

Yes, I never think it's ok to force the elephant to run like that.

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PsychedelicJellyBean t1_jdssps3 wrote

It's lifting it's front legs as it runs but you can see how it's sort of dragging it's back legs, putting the weight on them. It's more like a fat labrador bounding lol. Not a complete canter but i see how close it looks.

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KimberelyG t1_jdtiy1u wrote

That "fat labrador bounding" (pretty accurate description lol) is unfortunately not a natural motion but is caused by this elephant's front legs being hobbled together by chains. Example pic of chain hobbles on another elephant.

In OPs vid, you can hear the chains rattle and see them connecting the front legs together as the animal moves. Trying to run while hobbled is what's causing the unnatural 'bounding' gait pattern of this elephant.

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[deleted] OP t1_jdtoxla wrote

I agree with you that the elephant's front legs are chained, causing him to run like that. This answered my question. Thank you very much.

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Psykout88 t1_jduo3em wrote

Okay, let me rephrase this. Also, don't private message me again, that is weird. Stop taking this personally and reflect on your approach.

When you ask a question to someone but then immediately ignore them, it's always going to have a bad look. You didn't even ask a follow-up question, you just went back to "nah I think I am right." So it has nothing to do with your curiosity and everything to do with you being unable to let go of your initial assumption into a matter you clearly don't understand.

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[deleted] OP t1_jdutwma wrote

I see the problem now, look like people misinterpreted the tone and point of my comment. I only wanted to say that the article content is different from the elephant's behavior in the video.

See, you confidently believe that I ingnore them and think I am right, when what I really wanted to say was the opposite: I just wonder why they said 'elephants can't run' while in the video he seems to be running.

Other answers said it's because his front legs are chained, and that's cleared my confusion. (I messaged you because your comment disappeared)

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Psykout88 t1_jduvqi3 wrote

I can only operate off the information available to me, just as the rest of us have to. I can't see inside your thoughts, so if there is a misunderstanding there, it's because you used too little information and improper language.

Also the person did not say elephants can't run, you keep coming back to that. They clearly stated that terms of movement such as trotting/cantor/galloping only refer to the biomechanics. Elephants can never move like that due to their size and physiology, regardless of how it might look when they are moving their fastest. The article they linked even says exactly that, they aren't running because all feet are not leaving the ground.

Furthermore it states how when moving their Center of Mass does not vertically change at speed. As a bipedal animal, I am sure you can recognize how much your mass moves up and down as you run and walk, headbob. That Mass in the elephant not moving vertically keeps them trapped to the ground, so by definition they can not run/trot/canter/gallop

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[deleted] OP t1_jduxudi wrote

I see now, it's also because I misunderstood the use of galloping and running at first so I got confused, I am also not very good at writing and wording.

I apologize you for my mistakes both in the comment and in the message too. I never want to sound impolite, I just want to discuss with you guys but English is not my first language.

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Psykout88 t1_jduyukt wrote

This is more likely a cultural thing rather than language thing. Your sentence structure and vocabulary are completely fine, you are just missing the nuances of how to navigate the conversation.

It's like the difference between an argument and a debate. If you are entering a conversation to change someone's mind but willing to let yours change too, that's a debate/discussion. If you are entering a conversation only to change others minds, that's an argument. It definitely looked like you were just trying argue, but obviously that wasn't the case as you just didn't have all the information and tools yet.

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[deleted] OP t1_jdv0kcy wrote

No I never want to argue or change anyone's mind, I just wanted to discuss normally, but it look like the way I wrote it really misleads people.

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Zagrycha t1_jdtk85j wrote

gallop and canter are a physical capability, nothing to do with looks. just like a human moving fast is not galloping, neither is an elephant. so regardless of what it looks like now you know :)

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[deleted] OP t1_jdtldr9 wrote

You are right about moving fast is not the same as gallop. But in the question I only mean his running pattern, not the speed.

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Leaislala t1_jdtw0v7 wrote

Canter is a 3 beat gait with two of the four legs moving in unison. Although it originates in the hindquarters the beat of the gait itself is often counted as 1. One front leg (lead) striding out, 2. Opposite front leg and diagonal hind leg moving in unison, 3. Opposite hind leg and the pattern repeats 1 2 3, 1 2 3 It is often counted that way especially from the ground because one fore leg seems to be leading - a left lead or a right lead. A right lead would originate with the horse pushing off the left hind, then the opposite diagonal pair moving together, then the right front leg. Either way you count it, the actual gait and rhythm is the same - 1 2 3. Gallop is a four best gait with a moment where all four feet are off the ground.

https://learninghorses.com/canter-vs-gallop/

This is not how an elephant moves

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h3rbi74 t1_jdre8tz wrote

Nope, elephants cannot perform the gait pattern “gallop” as seen in horses, which by definition includes a period of complete suspension (all four feet off the ground at the same time). Source;

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16985198/

The locomotor kinematics of Asian and African elephants: changes with speed and size John R Hutchinson et al. J Exp Biol. 2006 Oct.

Selected quotes:

> We analyzed the locomotor kinematics of over 2400 strides from 14 African and 48 Asian elephant individuals (body mass 116-4632 kg) freely moving over ground at a 17-fold range of speeds, from slow walking at 0.40 m s(-1) to the fastest reliably recorded speed for elephants, 6.8 m s(-1). These data reveal that African and Asian elephants have some subtle differences in how size-independent kinematic parameters change with speed. Although elephants use a lateral sequence footfall pattern, like many other quadrupeds, they maintain this footfall pattern at all speeds, shifting toward a 25% phase offset between limbs (singlefoot) as they increase speed.

> The main difference from most other animals is that elephants never change their footfall pattern to a gait that uses a whole-body aerial phase.

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LastLapPodcast t1_jdsk7ig wrote

Elephants don't have ankles, it's why they can't jump. To be able to gallop you'd need to spring off your feet. Try running (or even fast walking) without bending your ankles at all keeping you feet directly 90 degrees to your shin bone whist also never bending your toes. Then imagine being 20 tons and trying to do the same.

Edit: they also have 4 forward facing knees which also precludes galloping. Added for completeness.

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Primarch-XVI t1_jdsv5mt wrote

Elephants 100% do have ankles. They’re just relatively weak, and elephants are so big that jumping just isn’t something their bodies can support.

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LastLapPodcast t1_jdt2dob wrote

https://www.audubonsculptures.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Anelephantfoot-1-e1517079923490.jpg

You can see from the skeleton that what you'd consider to be the ankle joint doesn't function like the ankle in other animals. The leg bones sit directly over with the animal walking on its toes. The calcaneum sits parallel to the ankle joint, essentially meaning the joint is fully extended any time the legs are straight. I imagine it as the same when a ballerina is on tiptoes, they also can't jump without either bending the balls of their feet (which elephants can't do) or by relaxing off their toes.

I will however concede that this alone isn't the only factor in the lack of galloping. The fact elephants have 4 forward facing knees also prevents a gallop.

Edit: the post below makes a very valid point that the joint in the front legs that performs the knee function is actually a wrist joint. The joint at the same level as the hind knees is actually a rear facing elbow joint. So it's more accurate to suggest they can't gallop because their legs bend the same direction when they walk/run. However the point around not being able to jump remains the same. The rear legs cannot produce the spring due to the way their feet are shaped and the way the joints sit. To gallop you must be able to propel your legs from the floor.

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KimberelyG t1_jdttjg6 wrote

>The fact elephants have 4 forward facing knees also prevents a gallop.

That's inaccurate. Elephants have knees and elbows that bend the same direction as any other mammal's.

This skeletal diagram is an easy illustration - https://imgur.com/HtrRcOb

And here you can see the elbow joint vs knees on a living elephant - this elephant has its elbows bent backwards as normal, and its wrists pressed against the ground as it's 'kneeling' to dig.

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BayouGal t1_jdtv9hv wrote

It’s called digitigrade and dogs & cats show this orientation of the foot & ankle bones. Because your fingers & toes are “digits”. When you walk flat footed like a human, it’s called plantigrade, and the bottom of the foot is the plantar surface.

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Primarch-XVI t1_jdt79ht wrote

Okay, I was not aware that elephants had such limited range of motion in their ankles.

But an ankle is still an ankle, no matter how much it can do. Saying that elephants don’t have ankles is just spreading misinformation.

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LastLapPodcast t1_jdtcr6q wrote

It's not misinformation. A bats wing and a whales flippers contain all the bones and joints in a hand but you don't say that those animals have hands. The foot to leg joint in elephants does not function the same as the ankle joint does in other four legged animals due to the way the heel structure is prevented from touching the ground. Yes, there is a joint there and yes it contains the same bones you find in feet but it doesn't do what those same bones do for other animals.

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goosebattle t1_jdt7tbi wrote

Important follow up question? What popular dance moves could an elephant do? The Charleston, the mashed potato, the twist, or flossing for example? Can you teach an elephant how to Dougie? Or a choreographed routine such as the macarena, chicken dance, or hokey pokey?

Edit: jazz hands, spirit fingers, and Bollywood are unlikely as elephants lack hands to perform the requisite movements. Twerking is on the table though, but perhaps not literally.

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dudefaceguy_ t1_jdtp8ac wrote

>Twerking is on the table though, but perhaps not literally.

I feel confident that elephants can twerk in a purely metaphysical sense.

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BayouGal t1_jdtuxex wrote

All mammals have to same bone structure in the limbs. All the bones in human ankles are in elephant ankles. Sometimes the bones are fused or repositioned, but they’re there!

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LastLapPodcast t1_jducavm wrote

All the bones in a bats wing and in a hand but you don't say a bat flies with its hands

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BayouGal t1_je9ym31 wrote

The arm bones are in there as well across the top part of the wing coming out of the shoulder.

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Deathbyhours t1_jduazy3 wrote

The thing that makes it appear that elephants can run is that they can walk at 25mph/40kph. I have seen people running a 4-minute mile on an elevated indoor track that was made so you could clearly see how fast those men were going. That’s 15mph. Elephants are fast.

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GforceDz t1_jdsfj7d wrote

Elephant run, but not often. They also charge at threats. I've seen them run to waterhole.

It looks like a elderly person doing a quick shuffle.

There's a lot of body rolling as they shift their weight. And of course they don't lift thier legs very high.

Babies Elephants are always charging and running around but nothing like the graceful gallop of a horse.

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