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Far-Contact7531 t1_j3fzs41 wrote

Reply to comment by cristiano-potato in How long does HIV remain infectious outside the body? by Terradubia

Do not compare laboratory data with real life data. Just because a virus "survives" in a lab setting for weeks it does not mean that on a real life surface it will do the same.

We also saw this with the pandemic. Lab data showed survival on surfaces up to 3 months but not in real world setting.

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Dhonnan t1_j3g67lk wrote

Why not in real world setting?

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Faxon t1_j3g6z1p wrote

Because the real world is far less sterile than in a laboratory. People come and go, UV exposure is a factor if outdoors (this was shown to play a huge role in rendering the virus inert, which is what fueled the outdoor dining surge during the height of the pandemic), and there are all kinds of surfaces that have some amount of anti-microbial properties as well. It's why doorknobs in hospitals were historically all made with brass (and many still are), because the copper content helps kill germs that get transferred to the knob as people open and close the door. The same goes for push plates on doors without knobs, railings in bathrooms and stairwells, and other common surfaces like cabinet handles. Stainless steel has taken over due to being cheap and easy to clean, but it's not the same in terms of killing stuff that's living on it the way bronze does. That said, there's research being done on ways to passivate steel (inhibit corrosion) using copper containing ions, to such a degree that it transfers this capability to the steel. Copper is already used in some bluing solutions for steel, but you'd probably need to use a lot more applications of it than you would just to blue the steel properly.

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Kantrh t1_j3g6ll1 wrote

From looking about articles on it seems that the virus doesn't survive for that long normally and the main form of transmission is from aerosolised droplets. The labs used unrealistic amounts of virus compared to real world settings

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buckwurst t1_j3gew78 wrote

the real world generally doesn't have surfaces that don't move and have a constant temp.

A glass dish in a temp controlled lab in a windproof box vs. a sneezed upon lamppost for example.

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QuietGanache t1_j3g6z4e wrote

There's a range of factors that could create a gulf between detecting a viable virus in the laboratory and a real-world risk of infection. For degradation, the environment is likely to be much more tightly controlled in the laboratory (low UV, reduced airflow, ect.). For exposure, a hand briefly touching a surface is very different from doing an intensive swab. For viability, the virus may be encapsulated in the fomite in such a way that it doesn't release back into the body in a viable form.

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Nick-Uuu t1_j3gaqpq wrote

the test was done in serum, unless you're storing bodily fluids it's not really the same.

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MonsieurReynard t1_j3h56i6 wrote

I don't think there is any known episode of surface transmission even documented for COVID. That doesn't mean it doesn't happen but it's exceedingly rare if it does.

Which makes all the wiping down and sanitizing people still do hygiene theater.

ETA lol people hate it when you tell the truth, and tell them their hand sanitizer and bleach wipe theater has no bearing whatsoever on covid risk. At some point ubiquitous dispensers of hand sanitizer became a performative way of saying "this business cares about your health," with little to no actual value except in a hospital or food service setting. Like so much else in our culture it's virtue signaling. If your business rally cared about Covid you'd have a masking requirement at all times for all people in the building, vehicle, or whatever. I laugh at people who don't bother to wear a mask but sanitize their hands a lot. There are other diseases that can help prevent, but not Covid. There's not one shred of evidence it helps.

Also gonna ruin your day: the dirtiest surface many of us touch every day is the top push button on a public hand sanitizer bottle. Think about it.if you really care about hand hygiene, soap and hot water are far more effective anyway. And any man could tell you how many fellow men don't wash their hands at all leaving a restroom.

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