I am literally begging Baltimore DOT to fix the light timings on MLK.

Submitted by meeroth t3_11hznj0 in baltimore

Every weekday morning, between Druid Hill Ave. and Lombard St., there is complete gridlock. Cars spill onto side routes, clogging less major roads with horrible traffic. We know it doesn’t need to be this way, as only a few short months ago, I could use this route to easily and efficiently get in and out of the city on my way to and home from work.

I know the DOT has been working on this, based on prior posts, but how long can it take? Did no one write down the old settings in a spreadsheet somewhere? Can we schedule this artery for the first tranche of computerized timing systems, when and if that system ever gets implemented?

223

Comments

You must log in or register to comment.

[deleted] t1_jawdpyv wrote

[removed]

100

BmoreCityDOT t1_jb7ejf8 wrote

We have been running the Mayor’s Bicycle Advisory Commission meetings.

3

Xhosa1725 t1_jb2tm13 wrote

They can't be that competent if they're the same folks who installed a bike lane in the middle of the North/Howard intersection. Whoever is responsible for that should be banished West Virginia.

0

[deleted] t1_jb2tqes wrote

[removed]

3

Xhosa1725 t1_jb5kxdl wrote

You answered the question. Before they put the barricade up cars were using the bike lane to make the left turn from North to Howard more than bikes ever were. North Ave is generally a shit show on a good day, so putting in a bike lane was a waste of time and money.

Come to think of it, I don't know that I've ever seen a cyclist on North Ave.

1

ohamza t1_jbt9rsa wrote

I’ve used it but it’s not an accessible bike lane. To be honest it doesn’t really go anywhere which is the problem. If all of North had a dedicated bike lane it would be used much more often, or at the very least if it connected to the Mt Royal path. Apparently that is in the works though.

1

draggin_low t1_jaw5lh7 wrote

u/BMoreCityDOT

74

[deleted] t1_jayo5vd wrote

[deleted]

3

umbligado t1_jaysz38 wrote

I mean, they were just all over this sub yesterday. And it’s the weekend now.

15

BmoreCityDOT t1_jb7dzc8 wrote

Yeah, we typically are off for the weekends unless there’s a big event or an emergency. Sorry we took a while to reply.

1

BmoreCityDOT t1_jb7dwbv wrote

We’re taking a look at this, thank you

1

meeroth OP t1_jd7ieqg wrote

The flow has improved significantly; thank you for all the work you’re doing on this. The one thing that’s left to fix is that the pedestrian only signal at MLK and Lexington goes red without any pedestrians hitting the signal. Once this signal becomes purely pedestrian activated, without any phantom signal changes, I think the flow will be almost perfect. Thanks again.

2

BmoreCityDOT t1_jd8zpoh wrote

Thank you! We've been working hard on this. We'll relay this to the team.

1

Jhawk2389 t1_jaw036q wrote

It's so freaking simple to fix. Cops change the timing all the time for sporting or concert events for cities I've lived in the past. There doesn't need to be some big drawn out study, just have a DOT person observe traffic for 15 min

57

[deleted] t1_jayogxk wrote

[deleted]

−6

BmoreCityDOT t1_jb7ex0m wrote

That’s pretty mean. We have different departments that do different things.

We really need more Traffic Electronics Maintenance Technicians, and have a posting for that here: https://transportation.baltimorecity.gov/featured-job-postings

1

Douseigh t1_jb7zayx wrote

I apologize for Being mean. I was having a bad day. For real. That was not right on my part.

2

BmoreCityDOT t1_jb87k0w wrote

Thank you, Douseigh. Really hope your days get better, sincerely.

1

StayHorny69 t1_javyhvr wrote

Holy fuck yes. I suffer through that stretch every morning commute. Absolutely fuming by the time I get to 395 ramp

51

YorickTheCat t1_jawerjk wrote

This explains why people drive like bats out of hell from Pratt on down. Pissed off and trying to beat the light at Washington Blvd.

19

Opposite_Selection_3 t1_jaw7qg3 wrote

Preach!!!! Also can we get some one to address Russell St when you get off the Parkway. It is completely designed for people to speed between lights, otherwise you spend more time idle than actually driving from the off-ramp to Pratt.

45

meeroth OP t1_jaw9q0l wrote

The timing there is my next project to ask DOT to address. There are truly 300 cars lined up coming into the city in the morning trying to get through Russell’s horrible light timing. I have put in a few 311 tickets but nothing ever happens.

19

e3c1f4 t1_jawstux wrote

Totally agree! About 6 months ago the timing changed and it's been terrible ever since. They ignore any 311 request I've made

9

bmore_conslutant t1_jawk3k6 wrote

So I'm in Florida right now

It may or may not make you feel better that West Palm Beach has light timing that makes Baltimore look like it's designed by actual experts

I thought Baltimore had to be the worst before spending some time down here

17

boobiesiheart t1_jawepkj wrote

There are lights near me horribly timed.

Us locals will come to full stops on the reds, then proceed. Or, if going straight, will make legal R turn, U-turn, then R again...to bypass the signal that didn't recognize the vehicles.

2 problems:

  • no consideration for low traffic periods
  • malfunctioning traffic sensors that either don't sense vehicle or cycle like there are cars at all 4 traffic directions... when I'm the only car on the road at 1am.
13

water_in_the_forest t1_jaxmcrc wrote

I've always thought most lights should turn to flashing red in those super late hours. Like between 1am and 4am maybe, or 11pm-4am in even lower density areas

4

boobiesiheart t1_jaxos0p wrote

Agreed.

I did contact mDot about 1 I intersection and they improved it. But it still doesnt always trigger. So, I treat it like a 4 way.

Yeah, I know im breaking the law, but FFS. There IS NOT A SINGLE CAR IN SIGHT.

6

moderndukes t1_jawm6g8 wrote

I know this is about fixing the light timing for MLK, but with any mention of that road I feel obligated to say that it needs major road dieting and traffic calming. It’s in my top 3 roads that need a redesign along with I-83 and North Ave.

11

scoutsadie t1_jaxab3r wrote

what's road dieting?

1

moderndukes t1_jaxezyt wrote

Reducing the width of a road, either by reducing lane width or the number of lanes.

MLK’s current design psychologically signals to drivers that it’s okay to speed on it due to the lane width, number of lanes (3-5 in some stretches), limited uses loading onto it, and the large right-of-way and setback of uses on adjoining streets (there are some stretches where a zone about the width of the road separates MLK from buildings near it). Some of those things are good for an arterial road and its flow and safety (like loading of uses), but the execution here leaves something to be desired - especially since it was built gashing a hole and severing neighborhoods like 83 and 40 do. This is all doubled by the 395 exit simply becoming the lanes of MLK rather than meeting at an intersection, meaning traffic flows seamlessly from the interstate and if it doesn’t encounter a red-light at Washington Blvd might continue at highway speeds.

It is an easy candidate for protected bike lanes and/or a tram system, and in-fill development - all of which will reduce speeds and accidents. Studies on road dieting have shown a 19-43% reduction in accidents.

17

needleinacamelseye t1_jb0ueth wrote

There was a study done a few years ago to narrow the width of the lanes on MLK so that the median could be widened and so that a proper bike path could be added alongside. I have no idea what happened to this proposal, but it seems like it might be a good first step.

In an ideal world, we'd take out most of MLK and re-build the street grid so that the west side wasn't as isolated from downtown, but that's a pipe dream until we get a much better public transit system.

4

[deleted] t1_jaypfq0 wrote

[deleted]

0

moderndukes t1_jb1tcc5 wrote

I’m going to presume you aren’t just a bad faith NIMBY from the county and engage. A study and plan already exists and is widely desired by the surrounding neighborhoods (signed letters at the end of the PDF).

2

Alwayspacing92 t1_jaw5njp wrote

Franklin st is my route. It’s terrible the backup of traffic

8

OzimanidasJones t1_jaxxlja wrote

Franklin/Mulberry from Charles is a horror story. Dangerous also for the pedestrians trying to cross while turning traffic is trying to get far enough into the intersection not to have to sit there for the other light cycle.

3

terpischore761 t1_jaw5qxd wrote

Edmonson ave / Rt 40 is the same. The mile or so between Hilton and cooks lane is hell for no reason.

8

JHBaltimore t1_jawd0ju wrote

Schroeder street to Harlem avenue to Dolphin street is the way to go to avoid MLK

7

neo-privateer t1_jaxbtx4 wrote

Just noticed this at 4am en route to BWI. We hit every light and no opposing traffic.

5

gothaggis t1_jaxc79v wrote

Didn’t they say there was a problem with the timers? That after they reset them, they are off again after a day or so?

4

6ixOutOf10 t1_jaxbi6s wrote

I curse light timing daily! Why the fuck are cars sitting in the intersections!

3

imperaman t1_jaxigwi wrote

Humans should not be timing stoplights. Machine learning should be used to study traffic patterns and then time the lights dynamically. For instance, if you're driving at night and there are no other cars around, then every light should be green for you. Or let's say there are five cars that are waiting to turn left at an intersection. The left turn signal should be green for exactly as long as it takes to let all five cars through, rather than letting four cars through and making the fifth car wait another cycle.

3

meeroth OP t1_jaxjpr2 wrote

Hey. This is Baltimore. I would truly be happy if a single qualified human being looked at any of the light timing on Martin Luther King Jr. Boulevard.

7

obmulap113 t1_jaz2tjh wrote

Key highway from light to mccomas. Takes 10+ minutes to go 1 mile. Zero traffic on any of the cross streets. 13 lights

3

jonxfiles t1_jb64y40 wrote

u/BMoreCityDOT

You were "looking into this issue" on January 25th. Six weeks later no response and of course the issue is just as bad as ever. Did you actually look into it??

3

BmoreCityDOT t1_jb7g9bd wrote

We did, and we are. Timing is something that is extremely complicated and takes a lot of time to work out.

2

[deleted] t1_jawlipa wrote

Thought I was the only one; it can literally ruin your day

2

mowgliart t1_jaz31y5 wrote

Just keep putting in 311 requests to get it changed.

2

S-Kunst t1_jawra9h wrote

Some Sunday mornings one can drive (40mph) south and get most of the lights green before hitting a red. Then there is the light at Washington BVLD. For people heading west, (from Ridgley's Delight), it lasts about 10 seconds. For people heading east (from Pig town) it stays green about 60+ seconds.

We also have the pain of the people going to Uni MD. They pile up the left lanes (going south). When the light turns green, they are in stupor and can't seem to get through it quickly.

1

CaptInsane t1_jawtnle wrote

Need to get them to no suck overall. They're responsible for parts of Dulaney Valley Rd in the county because the city owns Loch Raven Reservoir. The lights at Old Bosley and DV/Jarrettsville Pike are so horribly mis-timed it's awful. And people around here suck at driving . My wife got in a 4 car accident there a few months ago because these lights aren't timed right

1

godlords t1_jax8glj wrote

It is incredibly embarrassing and sad really how much of peoples lives are being wasted every day in traffic, how much frustration and accidents and pollution that causes, all because we can't manage to time some fucking lights properly. Literally they are all programmed so the way to hit them is by speeding.

1

imperaman t1_jaxgpzd wrote

Poorly timed lights is a huge destroyer of value. Economic value. Environmental value. Emotional value.

2

EfficiencySuch6361 t1_jayjq9u wrote

They need to put a traffic cop out there until this gets fixed

1

Conscious-Patience49 t1_jaypzmo wrote

The light by the Walgreens on MLK I was in a Lyft the other day right there I know it was at least 6 mins. But the light at Eutaw and MLK is quick. It’s hard for a pedestrian in that area.

1

Exotic-Row6075 t1_jbeotdx wrote

I thought this issue was fixed….but now I’m back to stopping at every light

1

DfcukinLite t1_jawjv2e wrote

They tried to fix the timing 8 years ago and there’s a reason it wasn’t fixed. If I recall it was because they legitimately can’t

−1

meeroth OP t1_jawm7rj wrote

This seems highly unlikely. Traffic lights have timers inside. If every light operates on a 60-second cycle for example, it’s possible for the whole road’s worth of signals to be timed perfectly. This is extremely basic traffic engineering. You do not need a graduate degree to understand the science here. And if the timer in a particular control box is broken, replace the timer.

9

DfcukinLite t1_jawmdl2 wrote

It’s not unlikely. They literally tired 8 years ago to no avail, because they can’t.

−2

meeroth OP t1_jawn11o wrote

I should clarify that I think the “we can’t” statement is likely a cop-out or flat-out lie. Not that they didn’t try. Sorry for not being clearer.

12

baltinerdist t1_jawsa2b wrote

Often times "we can't" in a software system does not mean it is a technologically impossible problem. It means that whatever effort is required to solve the problem way outweighs the value represented by solving it.

That can be true of even things that have tremendous value. If creating one feature that everybody will absolutely love takes 500 hours and with that time, you could build 25 other features and bugfixes, sometimes you just have to get the 25 in favor of the one.

That often means the one 500 hour feature will never get built because you will never just have 500 hours available at one time to burn on a single fix or enhancement. And some projects don't have the capability to be incrementally solved, aka we'll budget 10 hours for it this month and that will give us a small improvement. It could very well be that 490 hours don't get you a useable change, only the last 10 hours that wraps it up makes it useable.

Likewise if you can afford to budget 10 hours a month to it, that means it's going to be 50 months before it will ever go live. And in that time, there will be hundreds of other changes to the system that will have to be compatible with the one major feature, which means adding however many hours to the 500 to account for how the system has evolved since you started it.

Lastly, you can sometimes shave off time by putting multiple developers onto a project, but at a certain point, you can't put more people in the same work stream because they won't have anything they can do or they'll get in each other's ways. You can absolutely have two or three or four chefs cracking eggs and stirring batter and making icing, but eventually that cake goes in the oven and it's going to take as long as it takes to bake, no less and no more, no matter how many chefs you hire.

None of this is to excuse the DOT. Whatever it is they aren't doing here may not be anywhere near that complex. There could just be ineptitude at play preventing this from getting solved. But the details above might help explain this or other engineering issues you may come across.

5

xNetrunner t1_jax2h77 wrote

And then there's always the strong possibility that 500 hours that some group of developers will do will always be inferior to one developer who actually knows what the f*ck they're doing.

I think ^^^ is more likely the case.

3

baltinerdist t1_jax3omy wrote

You can also throw those 500 hours at a contractor without good oversight and end up burning tens of thousands of dollars on a crap outcome.

2

Cunninghams_right t1_jax80vx wrote

the lights should be timed to however it makes the various bus/light rail networks of the city run smoothly.

we shouldn't be giving priority to people sitting in a private, enclosed, perfect-temperature, lazy-boy on wheels, while they are listening to their favorite music.

you aren't experiencing the infrastructure problem while you're in your car, you ARE the infrastructure problem BECAUSE you're in a car.

if this city set aside 7% of the street/sidewalk space for bikes, it would have a bike network like Amsterdam or Copenhagen and people would find that being on a bike is WAY less stressful than being in a car, and those who still need to drive would find WAY less traffic.

for a given situation, a car is a big improvement to an individual's life and a small penality to those around them.

we can make up a point scale to illustrate the problem. a car is like a +1000 happiness to the car user, and a -1 happiness to those they drive past (pollution, noise, danger to kids, reduction in green space for parking, etc.). that seems like a great trade-off from the individual perspective... until you get a large number of people all selfishing looking at that trade-off. you get more than 1000 cars in a neighborhood, then everyone is getting +1000 then -1001... so a net -1. you make it 10,000 cars and now everyone is at +1000 -10,000 and everyone is at a -9000. if one individual gives up their car, they move from -9000 to -10,000, so individuals selfishly don't want to take a step backward. the solution is that we have to form a social contract with each other where we recognize that more cars and faster cars in front of each of our houses, parks, schools, businesses, etc. isn't for the best, and we need to give other things higher priority. bike lanes and buses may each not be a +1000 to the individual, but they are a much smaller negative to everyone else. you look at cities like Amsterdam and Copenhagen and they're quiet, pleasant, and poor people can own a viable mode of transportation for a couple of hundred bucks that will outlast a car if given 1/10th as much maintenance. same with transit. a tram going past every 5min is not as much of a negative as dozens of cars. if you're a bike/transit oriented city, then everyone gets a +500 happiness and a -0.00001 happiness for each person using those modes, so when you have 10,000 people using those modes, it's +499 to each person.

−7

godlords t1_jax93gl wrote

Do you even use transit in this city? As someone that takes the bus, believe me fixing this bullshit will save me a huge amount of time as well.

16

Cunninghams_right t1_jaybuau wrote

did you read my comment?

>the lights should be timed to however it makes the various bus/light rail networks of the city run smoothly.

what works optimally for buses may not be what works optimally for cars.

−3

Millennialcel t1_jax8w4c wrote

Bicycling + Baltimore drivers = death sentence.

13

Cunninghams_right t1_jayby2r wrote

which is why I said we should dedicate up to 7% of our street space to them. protected bike lanes + baltimore drivers = safe.

1

orlitzky t1_jayhwpo wrote

are you sure we don't just need more of the thing that's not working?

1