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JingleHelen11 OP t1_j9n4jsk wrote

Reply to comment by Amphy64 in What do you generally expect of published books? by JingleHelen11

> I'm genuinely unsure why you'd expect any guarantee of them being any good?

My understanding of the traditional publishing process is that books are assigned a number of editors, including developmental editors who would work on plot, pacing, characterization, etc, as well as copy and line editors. I've definitely read books I've disliked in the past; I don't expect every traditionally published book to be good, I do expect every traditionally book to read like it is a final draft by the time it is published. Previously, I've only encountered rough drafts & other drafts between rough and final (let's call them middle drafts) in writing groups and fanfiction. And that is while considering both fantasy and romance, though admittedly I'm not well- or widely-read in the romance genre so perhaps most of that genre does read as though it's in the middle drafts stage

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Amphy64 t1_j9n7w6k wrote

I'd honestly have more confidence looking for beta-read fanfiction than expecting niche genre fiction to have been edited with a significant commitment to improving it. Maybe I'd see the perspective looking at your examples more deeply, but usually, the concept is flawed (the genre itself essentially is) and it can't be fixed, the writer may be inexperienced, the audience may just prefer the trashier narrative choice, the editor isn't there to rewrite the entire thing. (I actually dropped The Fifth Season very quickly and would put it firmly in the unfixable category, equating racial discrimination with lethal superpowers just never makes for nuance and sane motivations, I was done after the first unjustified massacre) I'm not sure I'd distinguish between the idea of it being bad, and being like an earlier draft, unless there were relatively simple ways to adjust it - otherwise the amount of work to do is rewriting, not editing, the writer didn't write something that just needs polishing if it's that much of a mess and they lack the ability to fix it, they're just a bad writer.

I was surprised by repetition that may have been accidental and unconventional grammar (though, that can be valid, from a Sri Lankan writer in English) in The Seven Moons of Maali Almeida, but that was presented as a literary novel that won the Booker Prize (imo it is not literary, it is a supernatural thriller).

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JingleHelen11 OP t1_j9ndzpn wrote

I have read better fanfiction than the books I am referencing which I find pretty confusing considering the differences in medium between fanfiction and novels. I don't, I kinda expect an editor who is being paid to do something to do it at least as well as a volunteer beta reader lol

> The concept is flawed (the genre itself essentially is)

If you abd I will have to agree to disagree here? I don't think fantasy is a fundamentally flawed genre and in general, I enjoy most of the fantasy I read? I really enjoyed the Fifth Season so I gather we maybe have different preferences.

> Otherwise the amount of work to do is rewriting, not editing

&

> The editor isn't there to rewrite the entire thing

I've been using the words edit & revise interchangeably which is a fault on my part as they are different processes. Still, my expectation is that a book should be both revised and edited multiple times before publication. And of course the editor doesn't rewrite the book, but developmental editors (as well as critique partners, writing groups or beta readers etc which from what I know many authors use) should identify story problems and give authors options to fix. For instance, one of the books I'm talking about in the post House of Hunger features two characters early on in the book who serve as the main characters "ties" to her old life, except the main character doesn't care about her relationship with either of them (basically they do the same thing in the same way to the same effect, which is none). As a critique partner, if someone in my writing group has brought this book, I would've suggested either making the main character really value her friendship with the one character so their disapproval/leaving them behind actually caused conflict OR that that character be dropped completely so more time could be given towards developing the main characters relationship with her brother.

Like idk I'm not sure how many books are written, given a grammatical edit pass nothing else before being sent to the presses? Authors don't make a lot of money so aside from some cash cows I don't expect many of them are only interested in the bottom line and nothing else? I expect the vast majority of authors to care about their craft, and traditional publishers selection bias and process to ensure the majority of books are at a certain stage in the process?

There's a reason I'm excluding the self-published book from this discussion, and it is bc there are A LOT more barriers to entry for traditional publishing. If literary agents only accept a small percentage of submissions and only a small percentage of those are sold to publishing houses, then what are they selecting for if not quality? (I know the answer is marketability) but quality is part of marketability

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