What are you reading

The Pathfinder series by Orson Scott Card. I'm halfway through the second book and the revelations are making my head spin!

Literary fiction and a lot of history will give that feeling. You get a bit used to it and then dive in deeper and deeper until you hit Gödel, Escher, Bach. GEB is irrevocable so beware.

There is a whole genre of 'hard' science sci-fi. You might find that to your liking.

Also, check out the Riverworld series by Philip Jose Farmer. Not exactly the sort of thing you describe above, but a gripping story nonetheless.

If you want some next level shit try Dan Simmons

David Brin is one of my absolute favorite hard Sci fi writerd!

The Forever War by Haldeman. Pretty heavy stuff. Not really time travel, but the effects of FTL travel.

That’s been on my list forever. But are you saying it’s literary fiction or that literary fiction will lead you to this text? Or both?

Ray Bradbury has a ton of stuff if you want something more fun

And a neat song.

It’s primarily a mathematical theory book. Just the desire for something more and more brain crunching is what will inevitably lead you there lol. I’ve heard Hegel (I think it’s Hegel) might be the most impenetrable philosopher out there so maybe that’s the endgame lol.

It alternates chapters between Achilles and The Tortoise and mathematical theory, the former serving as your guide and it really helps make the book tolerable for the layman 😂 definitely worth reading but not easy by any means.

Do I need to be mathematically advanced to understand/enjoy it?

Godel Escher Bach defeated me. I'm not willing to work that hard. I love Name of the Rose though. I tried G E B, based on Name of the Rose and it's different.

Love the stuff that makes me think. The "Ancillary Justice" trilogy, by Ann Leckie, and pretty much everything Frank Herbert wrote.

If you ever want lighter sci-fi, look for space opera. But congratulations!

Myself I prefer sci-fi that emphasizes social or political or biotechnology or aliens rather than math, engineering or physics. But there is room for everyone and their tastes.

It just defeated you? I’ve had books that’ve beat me and I’m not ashamed to say it. It’s just GED has been on my list for so long I do t want to give it up before I started, you know?

Go for it. I found it much harder than I expected or was ready for. It might be different now, but my to read list is long enough.

The Three-Body Problem trilogy is pretty great. It's got a lot of technical details involving complex theories and astrophysics. Also a lot of multi-generational society building and collapses. My mind prefers the historical/human aspects, the technical jargon hurts my brain, but in a good way.

If you’re willing, hard how? If not, thanks for the heads up😁

It's very philosophical in the strict sense of the word, not the casual sense that just means thought provoking.

This is what surrealism does for me and why I love it so much.

I’m definitely not and I enjoyed it. There’s a lot of Escher drawings that are fascinating and the concept linking the three is real interesting. And the alternating chapters should make it alright. There will be some chapters where it’s just over your head most likely but that’ll happen with most anyone I think. Still worth reading in my opinion.

So you can’t just fuck around thinking you know stuff, got it. 😁 Thank you!

China Mieville's Bas-Lag books in the "New Weird" genre always bent my brain weird - Perdido Street Station, The Scar, and Iron Council, his three Bas-Lag novels, are something else.

You should think about reading the 6 Frank Herbert Dune books.

Sci Fi is the most timeless genre imo. Whether I'm reading something published this year, or something published when my parents were 5 years old they hold up. The distant future of 60 years ago and now are far enough off that the stories are timeless.

I just read Dune and that really made me realize this.

Awesome. Thank you.

There tends to be two camps, one that explains the core ideas of the world to you, and the other that just tosses you into the deep end and lets you figure out how to swim.

Dune does a great job of explaining things as they come up.

This Is How You Lose The Time War just tosses you in.

Both ways can be excellent.

This is 100% my jam! If you're enjoying Orson Scott Card, here's some other authors I'd recommend who hit a similar balance of mindbendy concepts, speculative science and fun styles/stories:

• Dan Simmons' Hyperion Cantos stuff
• Vernor Vinge's Zones of Thought stuff
• Anne Leche
• certain Neal Stephenson stuff (Diamond Age, Seveneves)
• certain China Mieville stuff (Perdido Street Station, The City & The City, Embassytown)
• Robert Charles Wilson

What book is it? Sounds like something I would like to check out! :)

Hyperion Cantos ... I'm on book #2 and I love it so very very much.

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I’m currently finishing up the Three Body Problem trilogy and it’s been excellent sci fi wise. It has high concepts and gets very jargon-y, but Cixin Liu (and I suspect Ken Liu, his English translator) do a good job of ending all the science fiction hoo haa with a story and plot you can understand and follow easily. The dimension stuff is particularly insane.

However, my favourite sci fi will always be Hyperion by Dan Simmons.

Try some of the "YA" type sci-fi like The Dragon and the Thief by Timothy Zahn or Redshirts by John Scalzi. Some of the older sci fi doesn't go into the psuedo science quite as much.

Four*

Or if you want even more strange, his novel Embassytown is a genuinely unique take on typical sci fi in space.

David Brin. Stephen Baxter. Robert Forward. Greg Bear. Stanislaw Lem. Kim Stanley Robinson.

I equally recommend any and all of these.

Oh and William Gibson.

Sprawl Trilogy in particular.

Greg Egan is really good for this. He has a couple books where the whole premise is "what would happen if we changed the laws of physics?" For example, his "Orthogonal" series takes place in a universe where the metric of spacetime is Euclidean (in our universe it is Minkowski), meaning there's no fundamental difference between space and time. This changes the way that many things work like the nature of light, electomagetism, thermodynamics, and space flight. In the appendix he has legit equations and derivations to back up the stuff he is describing. It's all very impressive and a little mind-bending, and I'm a physicist myself!

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The Pathfinder series by Orson Scott Card. I hope you like it :)

If you want complicated, give Book of the New Sun and Urth of the New Sun by Gene Wolfe a go. There is absolutely no way you will catch even half of the background intricacies on a first read. I like to listen to analysis of stuff I like and I didn't realize most of the things they talk about, but everything they say makes perfect sense when you go back and think about the writing and narrative.

Gene Wolfe is one of the most highly regarded speculative fiction authors ever. I'm looking forward to continuing his lexicon.

You would probably like a book called Tau Zero.

That sounds like a really cool plot. What's it called?

Pathfinder series by Orson Scott Card

It builds up a lot of contexts. Like the beginning is dedicated to learning math stuff for example. It can often feel like a textbook, but it’s good if you like to learn

I’ll say if you’re a physics “hobbyist” of any kind it flows. I watch surface level videos on quantum and astrophysics and nothing in the book was a slog. Actually extremely enjoyable, he has some very fresh takes on science. There’s an insane part on computer engineering I’ll probably remember forever

And to add to your list of what it does well, there’s a lot of good psychology, on human, community and societal level. The way he fleshes out available options in situations and how decisions are contemplated is crisp and deep. For example the two ships with the resource problem, the humans as a whole facing a problem, and the one man and woman with the immense responsibility come to mind

GEB isn't literary fiction. I'd call it a "popular science" book, in which big scientific ideas are introduced in a creative and accessible manner. I had already taken a course in theoretical computer science class before I read it, so I was very familiar with the ideas in the book. I enjoyed the presentation. It was very creative

Ted Chiang changed my conception of what Science Fiction could be. He's not a full time writer, and he's only written a handful of short stories.

Basically, he writes a short story every couple of years that wins every award a short sci-fi story can win. He has two collections, and you can find a lot of his stories on the internet for free. Absolutely worth your time.

Now try Blindsight.

Is the second book good? Idk if i want to know how the cliff hanger in the first one ends.

It continues right away, almost as if there's no reason for it to be in two books. Maybe think of a short intermission or a large book in two halves vs. the two separate books. It's quite good.

Sounds like I need to check out Pathfinder. I've been reading Doctor Who and Faction Paradox which do have their fair share of complicated plotlines and time manipulation. Other pieces of media, that squeezed my brain include Legion(TV) and Control(Game), albeit in different ways.

It's been a few years since I've read them, but I don't remember any good guy/bad guy dichotomy. Just multiple layers of survival. Also something about using gravitational waves as catapults? I need to reread

Yeah it didn’t have clearly defined morality, just groups fighting for resources or conquest. Gravity waves were for propulsion iirc and how they discovered FTL, like that demo the woman did in the bathtub with the soap and water. The coolest part imo was how they played with the dimensions and sizing of subatomic particles if you remember that, or the spying mechanism using quantum-entangled light speed particles. How the “dark forest” theory was fleshed out made scary amount of sense. Very fresh as far as the sci in scifi goes, much different from the usual tired “are robots really alive??” tropes and such.

I've found a really good book series that's kinda introductory to sci-fi is the Waking Gods series by Sylvain Neuvel. Genuinely a really awesome series and after finishing the first one I even dropped an email to the author since I was reading it during a really stressful time and it gave me some escapism. I got a really lovely email back. If you like sci-fi, I'd definetley recommend it, they're just complicated enough to be really interesting