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JusticeCat88905 t1_isb70r8 wrote

Reply to comment by RD__III in Finished a fantastic new book - Of Boys and Men: Why the Modern Male is Struggling, Why it Matters, and What to Do about It. by Dawens

Our society teaches men to treat women as objects. It’s because of this that they can’t have meaningful relationships with women, and it’s because of the lack of those relationships they are unhappy and that reinforces their belief that women are objects. The only thing that can be done about this is conscious self analysis and the raising of consciousness about your own beliefs to deprogram the harmful ideas about human society that people like Tate push that are not new, they are simply the recitation of the default perspective instilled in the west.

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RD__III t1_isb9agk wrote

What sort of bullshit is this? "dating life" Isn't even one of the top causes, let alone the single biggest. Causes such as

  1. lack of acceptance of emotional expression

  2. lack of emotional communication

  3. lack of support structures

  4. financial pressures and hardship

  5. lack of emotional acceptance (E.G. You)

are all larger causes than "can't get a girlfriend". This is a large and complex issue, and trying to twist this into some victim blaming chauvinist bullshit about objectification is insane.

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notorious98 t1_isbp8j6 wrote

All problems exacerbated by the fact that toxic masculinity has told boys and young men that showing your feelings is a "woman's trait".

Also, everybody has financial pressures and hardships, women included. In 2018, women (12.9%) lived in higher rates of poverty compared to men (10.6%).

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RD__III t1_isbpgko wrote

>All problems exacerbated by the fact that toxic masculinity has told boys and young men that showing your feelings is a "woman's trait".

And that's not moving the goal posts at all. We went from "Women are objects" to "woman's traits" real damn quick.

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notorious98 t1_isbpnre wrote

That's a lot of words you put together. You sure that you understand what they mean within the context of what I said?

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RD__III t1_isbpzel wrote

>You sure that you I understand

Pretty sure this isn't even a proper English sentence, so I certainly didn't understand this.

I also realize you aren't the person I was initially discussing with, which makes you totally changing directions seem a lot more logical.

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notorious98 t1_isbqgx7 wrote

>Pretty sure this isn't even a proper English sentence

Oh no, a typo that was already corrected.

However, if you couldn't understand what was written because of a single erroneous "I", it's not "the left" that's causing you to have problems in life.

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Dazzling--00 t1_iscabx0 wrote

Many of the things you mention are things that are affecting society in general. In Western countries, there are fewer community groups and societal structures, and more emphasis on the individual. That means individuals face immense pressure to "succeed", at the same time they're being placed in increasingly difficult situations where they have no chance of succeeding. The cost of living, housing affordability, lower wages and more. Add to that the climate crisis, the toxic nature of online communities, online disinformation, the lack of ways to meet potential partners, the lack of meaning - it's difficult for everyone.

The more we fight each other the worse it becomes. I think we're at a time when we need to recognise our similarities and work together. Blaming women, boomers, "them" and so on doesn't work. It's all of us.

I don't support the men's rights movement as it is, not because I don't support men, but because it seeks to portray men primarily as victims in search of a perpetrator. Ironically, I think it often seeks to diminish men's agency. It strongly suggests there are societal forces trying to keep men down. It's often not clearly stated who or what these forces are and disaffected men can then start to see enemies everywhere: teachers, other students, women in general, institutions, the left, the right, mainstream media, government, etc. I would suggest this is the ideological foundation that starts to weaponise young men. It could easily be exploited by anyone seeking to destabilise a nation or society.

Instead of squabbling online we can come together in real life to make the world a better place.

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JusticeCat88905 t1_isb9hu1 wrote

It’s all part of the same structure, interpersonal relationships (I’m not specifying romantic relationships here btw) is just a good example of how this plays out.

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RD__III t1_isba9jb wrote

please stop this chauvinistic bullshit. Not all issues in society can be rooted out as men objectifying women. There can be more than one cause of issues, and not everything revolves around what you think is most important.

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