Nemo3500 t1_j1k0862 wrote on December 24, 2022 at 11:49 PM

Right, except the OP specifically mentioned feeling nihilistic despair; nihilism is fundamentally based in the meaninglessness of reason and existence.

And at the risk of pointing out the obvious addendum to that: if there is no "Inherent" a priori meaning (e.g. A rose is not inherently beautiful), then assigning meaning of "horrible" is attributed by the person feeling the despair. But it is not of the thing, it is of the person.

So the simple, if not easy, reaction to despair is to find those things in which you find purpose, meaning, and value. Concern yourself with what you are able to do, and take the rest as well as you can.

It doesn't fix the world. Nor does it necessarily make it a better place. But it can make you better able to deal with it. And in my experience, people who can deal with reality healthily often make it better for others which might, in the end, be all we can actually do.

Just a thought.

bhbhbhhh t1_j1k2aop wrote on December 25, 2022 at 12:06 AM

In the commonplace sense that people inaccurately use nihilism, it mostly just means thinking things are really, really, bleak. OP, like myself at a you ger age, probably took the existentialist road and saw meaning in the contuity of humanity, nature, etc., which directly caused a despair that wouldn’t affect a nihilist who doesn’t care about those things.

You may be mixing up cause and effect - people tend to feel despair because they think the things they already find purpose, meaning, and value in are going to be destroyed or ruined.

Nemo3500 t1_j1k4mx0 wrote on December 25, 2022 at 12:26 AM

Perhaps. I tend to think in ways that other people don't, so that's entirely possible.

However, I find it interesting the idea that the root of despair comes from the belief that meaning, purpose, and value will be destroyed. Maybe that's true for some people - lots of people, really - but I feel like despair can have many root causes, plenty of which are divorced from reality.

But if that is genuinely the case, I feel like existentialism *may* be the appropriate response because it sounds like in your understanding of despair, the destruction of meaning is what creates the despair. In that case, accepting that the meaning you held for something wasn't its inherent meaning, and that you can create new meaning all the time may help one out of the despair they're in.

Interesting to ponder.

bhbhbhhh t1_j1k5270 wrote on December 25, 2022 at 12:30 AM

Deciding that that people you loved who died didn’t really matter isn’t an option for many people.

Nemo3500 t1_j1k8vd5 wrote on December 25, 2022 at 1:03 AM

First off: that's a straw man. Do better.

Second: a loved one's death can matter to you, and you can still create new meanings, find new values, and move on with your fucking life. These are not mutually exclusive things.

If, however, you choose to remain in despair over the loss of someone because say it with me, there is no inherent meaning, that's a perfectly valid approach to life because in the end everything is inherently meaningless. However, if you don't want to feel despair, it is in your best interest to make the effort to find new meaning. Whether that's in other loved ones, in helping others, in acts of service, in pursuit of scholarship. Whatever. It's your choice to make.

So whether or not you find meaning or value again is entirely immaterial to the original point. I am suggesting that because there is no inherent value, it is entirely up to you what meaning you assign to the world, and the ways in which one can reckon with the world in a healthy way that doesn't engender despair.

So you can, and I cannot stress this enough, CHOOSE to find meaning in the world. It's a conscious choice. And one you have to make constantly. It's not better than the other, but it's the one that I place value on. It is the choice I make with my life.

Just like I'm choosing to respond to this comment.

bhbhbhhh t1_j1kbigt wrote on December 25, 2022 at 1:28 AM

These days I don’t have much affinity for “no inherent meaning” talk. Yeah, I don’t believe things have Platonic essences either. But the framework I now have is that everything which has been observed and noticed is inherently meaningful. People have seen meaning in it, and therefore the meaning is a part of it.

Nemo3500 t1_j1kcfr9 wrote on December 25, 2022 at 1:37 AM

That's great. And because everything has no inherent meaning outside of what is assigned to it, I'm glad you have a framework for existence that makes you feel whole.

Now please leave me alone.

bhbhbhhh t1_j1kcu8w wrote on December 25, 2022 at 1:41 AM

I don’t actually comprehend why you feel bothered or resentful.

Nemo3500 t1_j1khtrk wrote on December 25, 2022 at 2:29 AM

That's probably for the best

RobleViejo OP t1_j1mg161 wrote on December 25, 2022 at 4:35 PM

>The despair I see in people is not a belief in meaninglessness, but the belief that the meanings there are in the world are absolutely horrible.

You hit the nail right in the head.

This is an excerpt from Cixin Liu's book "The Dark Forest", describing what happens to people when they lose all hope in Humanity

Nemo3500 t1_j1jvb1a wrote on December 24, 2022 at 11:09 PM

bhbhbhhh t1_j1jwptz wrote on December 24, 2022 at 11:20 PM