Fox-and-Sons t1_j6bay9m wrote on January 29, 2023 at 2:38 AM

Reply to comment by ahkna in Dickens' David Copperfield: Were men more affectionate with each other in the 18th century? by angelojann

It's not homophobic, it's presenting a reasonable theory of why things shook out the way that they did. It's not saying "and that's why gay people should go back in the closet." It's just saying that as the concept of homosexuality developed in public consciousness as possible thing that a person might be, that men made a point of signalling that they're not part of that group. There's no value judgment there.

Yrcrazypa t1_j6bh70f wrote on January 29, 2023 at 3:28 AM

>Fear of being perceived as gay only became an issue with the increasing visibility of homosexuality & its gradual social acceptance. Normal affection between boys was sexualized. The visibility of homosexuality had a direct negative effect on the expression of intimacy & affection between heterosexual men, just as it also put a damper on things like girlfriends holding hands while they walk (something I remember being normal & common when I was a kid but which gradually ceased when girls started getting called lesbians for doing so).

>The sexualization of same-sex affection is what killed it.

This is literally a value judgement and saying that it's gay people's fault. That's homophobic, and if you look at their post history you'll see tons of bullshit "heteronormativity" being supported.

HettiePie t1_j6czacu wrote on January 29, 2023 at 1:45 PM

No. They're blaming the "sexualization". That is an action by the person doing the sexualizing.

Read: If you sexualize teen girls for dressing in a certain way, we should not blame the girl; however, we should blame the person who sexualizes the child.

Also, this person is stating facts. History is what it is. The person stating the facts is not a homophobe for speaking the truth.

Seriously, people? Taking an excellent topic to spur intelligent intellectual conversation and using it as a chance to go all "social justice warrior"? What a drag.

ahkna t1_j6g90b0 wrote on January 30, 2023 at 2:42 AM

This is r/books, so I'm begging you to READ A BOOK.

Just because you're comfortable being homophobic doesn't make it correct.

petereeflea t1_j6bsav0 wrote on January 29, 2023 at 5:02 AM

Yes, but they didn't want to be seen as being part of that group, because it was culturally unacceptable. It was perceived as perverse. Which resulted in death, or jail, or being ostracized. If being gay was always accepted, and demonized, or treated as a perversion. Then men wouldn't have an issue with same-sex affection. Because being seen as gay wouldn't be a bad behaviour in society.

ahkna t1_j6g8vs5 wrote on January 30, 2023 at 2:41 AM

Yes, it is homophobic.

The girl flat is blaming gay people for "sexualizing" girls holding hands. Did you even read it?