What is a plot/world-building issue that breaks your suspension of disbelief?

Submitted by JonathanCue t3_10og9rl in books

I don't mean tropes you dislike (the dreaded love-triangle), or writing patterns that ruin the immersion (skirt smoothing), but just issues IN the world or plot itself that make you think "There's no way that would happen."

For me it's something almost ubiquitous in the fantasy genre; that the world will exist alongside magic, and yet NOTHING changes because of it. It will be as if you walked into medieval Europe or some such except people can now also shoot lightning from their wands and it makes no difference to the nation it takes place in. Think about that. You're living in a world where you can transmute metals or shoot fire from your hands or make an important politician your thrall just by gazing into his eyes and yet the world itself doesn't seem to have adjusted for it. The technology level is the same, the legal code is the same, the policies associated with walking into an important building or city are the same. Diplomatic and war rituals are the same. It's as if the world could just be a historical novel except it has magic lazily stitched onto it like some kind of growth rather than an integrated part of the world.

That's also always been my gripe with urban fantasy. No matter how good the world and writing are, I can't get over the fact that this super-powerful race/clan/faction of beings just decided NOT to take over everything (until the events of the plot kick off, of course).

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UnderwoodsNipple t1_j6ef6ku wrote

I mean, that's not really a world building issue, you're basically questioning the basis of an entire genre. With that kind of approach, almost nothing should be working for you.

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bhbhbhhh t1_j6f74lw wrote

Across the past sixty or so years, there have been quite a many fantasy series that think harder about how magic would change human societies. I've heard particular buzz about the Commonweal books by Graydon Saunders.

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JonathanCue OP t1_j6egdzd wrote

How do you mean? There's no reason why magic cannot be integrated (whether in urban fantasy or regular fantasy), it just often isn't.

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UnderwoodsNipple t1_j6egybw wrote

Well is there a specific example here where it took you out and one where you think it works well? Because your post very generally suggests that fantasy as a genre often doesn't work because existence of magic should cancel out a medieval society.

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JonathanCue OP t1_j6ek38s wrote

Certainly. I found that Dune had excellent world building in regards to its 'magical' component. The Bene Gesserit Witches, while possessing incredible powers, are also essentially conditioned to be completely subservient and possess little to no ego unto themselves, preventing any individual member from a desire to exert direct control (yet even this isn't wholly true; as the group has their own ambitions and desires that they carefully keep hidden THROUGH this subservience, and because their abilities are too subtle to be effective in direct confrontation).

Vampire; The Masquerade (though a game) has good world building in regards to its secret vampire society, with the explanation as to the masquerade having little to do with humans and more to do with the fact that they're all too busy killing eachother to want to deal with *another* foe. Despite this, plenty of vampires DO inhabit high society and government positions, and keep themselves hidden more out of fear of other vampires than what humans would do.

Avatar, The Last Airbender (though a show) had great world-building where you can see the direct results of the magical system on the society within it. The Earth Kingdom's landscape/cities all function AROUND the ability to Earthbend and it has the most intricate transit system of all nations due to this reason. The Fire Nation has the most advanced technology of anyone, far surpassing all others, because they have a unique, portable, accessible heat source constantly at their disposal. Etc.

One that took me out of it? Harry Potter, just at the top of my head. A master wizard has enough power to wipe out dozens of battalions with a flick of a wand or assassinate select individuals with ease and you're telling me they all borderline-unanimously decided to keep to themselves out of every human conflict ever? Come on now.

I didn't mean to suggest that magic should cancel out medieval society, because even in fantasy worlds built from the ground up they go through a medieval period, all I meant was that said society would grow and develop *alongside* these magics and having them and their effects integrated into their society, rather than nothing being particularly different. If your world includes a group of superpowered humans who HAVEN'T followed the trend of literally every other powerful group to ever exist... why is that? There ARE reasons why people who have vast power wouldn't want to *exert* that power, but it has to be more believable than "We just didn't want to", and IF that's the explanation, then what is the CULTURAL reason that enforces that? Is it some kind of religious orientation that commands pacifism? If you try to deviate, do you lost your abilities? Etc.

Same with regular fantasy. If, within your fantasy world, there exists a group of people who are able to approach a noble and command them to give up all of their gold and this noble is magically bounded to obey, there HAS to be some legal recourse from that or military protection preventing it. There's no way a world would exist where such powers were learnable that a society would just let slip under the rug.

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Kssio_Aug t1_j6emngc wrote

I mean, in Harry Potter isn't Voldemort objective exactly to rule both worlds and dominate the non-magical humans? So they're not unanimously agreeing with the rules they live by. And Voldemort had his share of allies, they just kept themselves in the shadows when they felt their aspirations wouldn't get enough traction.

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JonathanCue OP t1_j6enfz2 wrote

Yes, that's why I included the last line of my main post: (until the events of the plot kick off, of course).

When I say unanimous, I am not speaking literally. Obviously the villain in any one of these stories is OFTEN someone who wants to take over both worlds; but there it is: 'The Villain'. Looking at Harry Potter, wizards are recruited from all over the world. They each have different backgrounds, different cultures, different views, different beliefs, and different childhoods; so why is it that it took UNTIL Voldemort for the idea of "Hey, why are we hiding out again?" to seriously arise? Surely this should have been a REGULAR thing the wizarding world contended with. And IF they're contending with it... why? Why is it the 'good' decision to not rule everything? Why did the board of directors decide on THAT approach vs any other? Etc.

Again, 'they felt their aspirations wouldn't get enough traction', but why is that? Why is the wizarding world one centered AROUND non-interference? Why is THAT the default? So on, so forth.

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Y_Brennan t1_j6etrqb wrote

You Should read Annals of the western Shore by Le Guin. The people with powers are a bunch of incestuous mountain clans who only fight each other and don't leave their mountains. It is an awesome series.

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MaoFeipang t1_j6eniw3 wrote

This is more of a general suspension of disbelief issue, but when the author is clearly more sheltered than their own characters/written situations, such that the world they've built isn't something anyone would really be interested in and also the way the characters and react within that world arent really believable -- again, because the author hasn't either been through those emotions or lacks the empathetic imagination to write someone who has.

Tbf, haven't seen it too much, in professionally published works, but when I played editor for my peers in university... Holy shit.

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JonathanCue OP t1_j6entk3 wrote

Oooh, any specific examples?

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MaoFeipang t1_j6exyml wrote

No works off the top of my head, sorry. I had this whole long response with an example of a classmates writing assignment they got a good grade on, but it's all so stupid. Nobody who gets published writes like that, so it probably doesn't matter

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entropynchaos t1_j6f56lv wrote

That’s really interesting. I’m usually more irked if there are major world changes, because I usually think that despite those things, the world will pretty much chug along the same as it always did.

In general, though, I’m really good at suspending disbelief in all sorts of ways that annoy other people, and just taking those things at face value in order to enjoy the book for what it is.

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nocountry4oldgeisha t1_j6elgk5 wrote

I don't mind contemporary fantasy, but I do get irritated when a High Fantasy world is mixed with modernity. Like, if they discovered an iPhone in Mordor, I'd be done. But Anne Rice, Jonathan Stroud, and JKR have all done fantasy in 'contemporary' settings and it doesn't bother me because these ideas were all disclosed up-front (I guess you could say, they have stayed true to the pact they have made with the reader).

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munkie15 t1_j6gbz6q wrote

For reasons you described that is why I’m picky about magical realism. So far the only series that I think have addressed the issue well have been The Dresden Files and the Harry Potter series.

What ruins my suspension of belief is when authors do such terrible research into widely accessible information. Like first aid, basic emergency medicine, basic firearm safety, fundamental urban combat movement, etc… all of these are easy to find and easy to portray correctly. But too many times authors just phone things like that in. The example that comes to mind of some of the most egregious lack of research in those regards is “Dark Matter” by Blake Crouch.

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GrudaAplam t1_j6f13gf wrote

Well, doesn't it make sense to start the events of the plot just before the super powerful race/clan/faction of beings makes its move to take over everything? That's the whole point, right? That's where the action, the conflict, the tension arises.

If the super powerful race/clan/faction of beings made its move to take over everything earlier then you'd have to start the events of the plot earlier.

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JonathanCue OP t1_j6f3b9d wrote

Not necessarily. Depending on how long your secret world has existed, there is a thousand years worth of time for different factions/clans/races to act. It would be super unrealistic if those within it only had the idea to take over the world at the back end of those thousand years.

Think of the societies we have now in our world. It doesn't exactly take long for them to go to war over land or plunder. What makes *this* faction, which is by necessity so MUCH more powerful than everyone else, different in that regard? What motivation do they have to STAY secret?

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bofh000 t1_j6fig4h wrote

I think most books explain the in-world reason why the magic or the powers aren’t on display. In any case if it bothers you, you can read different books, different genres …

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lucia-pacciola t1_j6etmen wrote

Parasite, by Mira Grant, was published in 2013 and set in 2035. But for some reason all the high tech offices in the story are using clipboards instead of tablets. Unreasonably annoys me.

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raevnos t1_j6g1gbj wrote

I find that completely believable. The paperless office is a myth.

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