Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments

RadialSpline t1_izf8jek wrote

Reply to comment by zorbathegrate in Last Boeing 747 rolls off line after half a century of production by diacewrb

That’s how the 737MAX happened. Trying to extend the lifespan of a design long past when it should have been retired.

As in the 737 was designed during a time when many airports had no baggage handling equipment for loading, so it sits lower to the ground than every other extant Boeing design, which then forced them to move the engine nacelles up when they slapped in the truly massive high-bypass turbofan jets. Moving the nacelles changed flight characteristics of the plane but they put a flight control system from the military side (MCAS) on to bring the planes flight characteristics back in line with the OG 737. The MCAS system got faulty data from sensors on some flights and severely contributed to the downing of those flights. There were specific trim levels on the 737MAX that had/have more advanced troubleshooting features (that’s the safety systems locked behind a paywall of earlier posts), that the airlines of the flights that went down didn’t spring for (new cockpit setup would require that airline to send its pilots in for retraining on the new features).

This is what I pieced together working in Boeing’s fabrication division deburring and hand-finishing wing ribs and spar chords (ribs hold the upper and lower wing skins apart and the spar chords hold the wing skins to the fuselage.) Chances are if you’ve flown on any of the new 777X aircraft parts of the wings I fixed up with angle grinders and hand tools.

53

bouncyb0b t1_izfeumo wrote

You missed the bit where the Boeing sales people deliberately miss informed the airlines that no type conversation training was necessar, in order to increase sales. The pilots of the crashed jets had no idea that this system existed let alone how to deal with a failure of it.

Ford pinto levels of corporate competence.

33

RadialSpline t1_izfqdqw wrote

Technically the 737MAX was on paper the exact same flight characteristics of an non-MAX model at the time of sale, so per regulators there was no need to have the pilots go through it. The Lion Air flight 610 and Ethiopian Air flight 302 tragedies were monumental fuckups from many sources, not just Boeing.

9

floridaengineering t1_izhoy56 wrote

Weren't the flight characteristics different due to the new position of the engines? Unless you're talking about the inclusion of the MCAS.

3

RadialSpline t1_izhr5zt wrote

Yep. With MCAS the MAX had the same flight characteristics as the OG 737, so by adding it Boeing was able to manufacture them under the original 737 production certificate, which is/was a MASSIVE loophole that hopefully the FAA has closed (I have not checked as I got the hell out of Boeing earlier this year due to culture issues when I got called back from a layoff).

It turns out that people who survived [in upper management] the Boeing/McDonnell-Douglas merger in the 90’s were the scum-sucking corporate raider types who would take a league if you give them an inch who would exploit things like vague regulations/legislation for a payday and set up someone who actually kinda sorta gave a crap about longevity of the company as a fall guy. [James McNerney was the President, CEO, and Chairman of Boeing’s Board of Directors while the 737MAX was developed and certified, then resigned before the first deliveries for Muilenberg to take the heat, then Calhoun has taken over once an executive was used as a scapegoat. McNerney and Calhoun are MBA types while Muilenberg was an engineer…]

3