Are HE6se V2 supposed to sound more "subtle" and "lowkey"?

Submitted by YsDivers t3_zwqz5r in headphones

Warning: I'm not really that knowledgeable, I just really like listening to good music a lot

I'm coming from HD598 -> HD58x. Laptop source, no DAC, no amp, no EQ since I didn't like it

HE setup is with laptop source + apple dongle as DAC through Magni Heretic (far more than enough to power, I only need the lowest gain and like ~50% on the volume knob). Also no EQ

Everytime I got a new Sennheiser and listen to it, there are always some details about it that clearly stick out and make it seem "magical" almost. Wide soundstage, insane clarity of details, separation of instruments/layers

However, with the HE, there was no individual presentation layer about the music that blew my mind away. Instead, the music as a whole just sounded so much more full and fun than I've ever heard it before. Everything was still clear, the separation is there, but it doesn't even seem like a prominent feature of the headphones. Songs just sound better than I've ever heard them and I have no idea why. I can tell that the bass is stronger, clearer, and much less thin than the HDs but that's about it

With the HDs, music is clearly coming from the headphones. But the HE makes me feel completely engulfed and swallowed up by the music as if they were coming out from speakers around me. They sounds so warm and it's like they're playing music directly into my soul rather than my ears

I think I've hit the end game. I literally have 0 complaints about these headphones. There is nothing I wish they could do better

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dstarr3 t1_j1wngqo wrote

Adequate volume =/= adequate power

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chrews t1_j1wrhx7 wrote

I was under the impression that power and volume is the same thing. If that’s not the case you could theoretically built an amplifier that has tons of power and very little volume and vice versa, right?

Just trying to get this right as everybody seems to say something else.

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dstarr3 t1_j1xm5p5 wrote

Honestly, the problem is pretty unique to the HE6se v2 and a small handful of other headphones still on the market. The HE6's problem in particular is that it is a bit of a dinosaur, based on driver design that is almost 15 years old now. These days, most modern headphones will sound just fine on most modern amps and you don't have to worry about any of this. But the dinosaur HE6, unfortunately, really does benefit from every watt you can give it.

What the HE6se V2 can sound like when properly amped is very raw, energetic, aggressive, ultra-detailed, ultra-fast, great bass slam, etc etc. Properly amped, this headphone can keep up with others three or four times its price. Without adequate power, the bass slam and speed vanishes, the soundstage narrows, and the highs lose all energy and become very vague and dull. Sounds like a completely different and just much worse headphone.

For instance, the way I normally listen to my HE6se V2 is by connecting it to the speaker taps on my Onkyo AVR that's good for 150WPC@8ohms (which is about 24WPC@50ohms). I'll be the first to tell you that this is extreme overkill, that much power is absolutely not necessary, but 1) it certainly eliminates any doubts you could have about providing adequate power, and 2) the AVR only cost me $100 used. Driving the HE6 this way, the wattage-to-dollar ratio is out of this world.

So my overkill Onkyo AVR is my point of reference. It allows me to hear everything that people endlessly praise this headphone for. And so from there, I experimented with how it sounds on other amps I own. The least powerful amp I tried was my little Liquid Spark, which is good for about 1W or so. Totally inadequate. No slam, no speed, no energy, etc. Honestly just bad. I love the amp for a lot of headphones in my collection, but it just doesn't cut it for the HE6.

It wasn't until I bumped up to my Liquid Platinum, which is good for about 4W, where I really started hearing that greatness that I was hearing with my overkill Onkyo. Such that if all I had was my Liquid Platinum, yeah, that'd be fine. I would say the LP's 4W is enough to get you nearly everything this headphone can deliver. It turns out that I don't really care for the planars-on-tubes sound, so I don't pair them often, but I found the LP to be technically capable for sure.

The community for this headphone on Head-Fi, we find that amps like the Liquid Platinum or the Schiit Jotunheim are about as low as you want to go in terms of wattage to extract most of what this headphone is capable of. One lesser-known amp that's been getting a bit of attention lately from HE6 owners is the Emotiva BasX A2m, which when set up in direct drive mode, is good for a whopping 8.5WPC@50ohms, and the amp only costs $350. Good bang for the buck.

All of the amazing things you hear people say about this headphone, honestly it's 100% true, it's real, the headphone can do it. Unfortunately, unlike modern headphones, you do just need to work for it. That's not to say you have to spend money to get there. Like I said, my Onkyo AVR I use with mine only cost me $100 used, and there is a good crop of dedicated headphone amps available new today that have adequate power without absurd price tags, like the ones I mentioned earlier. Just... some specialized gear is unfortunately required to really extract every ounce of greatness out of this dinosaur headphone.

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RamboneSC t1_j1xqtm5 wrote

I really wonder a lot of things about the HE6se V2. I've been reading that the DAC really makes a big difference, specifically balanced ones that can provide between 4-5 volts.

I also wonder quite a bit about the minimum wattage recommendation Hifiman makes at 2 watts into 50 ohms. How close is this to actually maxing out the potential of the HE6se V2? I always see people either compare at the very bottom of the totem pole or at the top and rarely inbetween.

Should 2-3 watts be enough or do we really need to be getting into 4-8 watts to unlock this headphones potential?

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dstarr3 t1_j1y0zkf wrote

I can't comment on how much DACs influence the HE6se V2 as I only have my one, the Schiit Modius. I think it mostly depends on the amp in your chain. Some amps might not have enough headroom to EQ to headphone if they're only getting a 2V signal from a non-balanced DAC. Similarly, some hybrid amps are Class A through most of their volume range and switch to Class A/B at the top end, and a 4V signal might provide the headroom to keep the amp in its pure Class A range, whereas a non-balanced 2V signal might require pushing the amp into a volume range that means it switching to Class A/B and thus degrading the quality.

So, it's hard to say how important the DAC is without knowing what amp it's being connected to. But the Schiit Modius like I have is a good 4V balanced DAC that can be had for just $200, so again you don't really need to break the bank. You just need to know what to buy.

I don't have any experience with specifically 2-3W amps, my amp collection jumps from 1W to 4W. So maybe there's a 2-3W amp that would make the HE6 shine, but the general consensus from the Head-Fi HE6 community is that you need to start around 4W.

A thing I dislike is that this all can sound very gatekeeper-y and I hate gatekeeping in any hobby, so I am again eager to point out that, while this headphone does seem to benefit from every watt you can give it, you don't have to spend a lot of money to get all those watts. Good +100WPC speaker amps can be found used for around or under $100 very easily and they are a very popular and inexpensive way to get heaps of enjoyment out of this headphone. There's also the Emotiva BasX A2m that's normally $350, currently on sale for $250.

You don't need to spend a lot of money to get the best out of this headphone, you just need to get exactly the right gear.

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ElectronicVices t1_j1zb7lj wrote

Rogue RH-5 is 3.5W into 32, despite having more powerful amps the Rogue is my preferred pairing with the HE6se. A bit overkill unless you are also using it as a preamp but for dual use systems it's been a wonderful addition.

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RamboneSC t1_j1y6bog wrote

Thank you for the most excellent explanations and advice!

I think at some point I will try getting a dedicated balanced dac and a more potent fully balanced amp down the road. I think the only balanced dac in the house I have is from my EF400 and as for a balanced amp, I have a Monoprice THX 788 which is not really up to the task for the HE6se V2. I also have too many 2v DACs from wanting to experiment with different chip implementations, got a new Modi Multibit 2 from Schiit arriving this week as well.

After reading your reply here, I did a lot of thinking and the BasX A2m seems like a silly good deal for the amount of power on tap after the jumper install. I highly doubt I could do any better at the price as traditional headphone amps start ramping up to astronomical prices for the same amounts of power. I decided to pull the trigger on it!

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dstarr3 t1_j1zksv1 wrote

Actually yeah, the Emotiva A2m has been on my radar for a while, and writing these comments lead me to discover the current sale, so I pulled the trigger on my own last night, too, lol. I'm excited to give it a listen. It very well could be the most wattage for your dollar currently, and while there aren't tons of reviews out there yet, the ones there are are positive.

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RamboneSC t1_j1zn7jr wrote

Heeey Emotiva Buddy! ;) lol

I am honestly pretty excited for it as well. I have seen nothing but positive comments on it when it comes to the HE6se V2, so hopefully this all pans out.

I suppose once I get it and have put some mileage on it, I will come back and leave a comment here with what I think.

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bbuky01 t1_j1whtsx wrote

While I have not tried a Magni with the HE-6seV2 I’m pretty sure it needs more . Even with my Master 9 it is good but probably could handle a bit more.

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Capt-Clueless t1_j1xdyim wrote

If you think they sound good now, wait till you hear them with a proper amp (read: speaker amp).

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D00M98 t1_j1y06nn wrote

Op, I believe you enjoy the open soundstage of HE6se V2. Newer Hifimans have more open and larger soundstage. If you really like soundstage, you should try those out.

It is a balance between presence and soundstage. Some headphones like Sennheiser HD6x0 series have forward and present mids/vocals, but small soundstage. Other headphones like newer Hifimans have open and soundstage, but mids/vocals sound lean and recessed.

HE6se V2 is in between. It's vocals are reasonably forward, and soundstage is also average. Nothing wrong with that. Good balance for forwardness and soundstage.

And bass is just separate attribute that really stand out on HE6se V2. Punchy and impactful.

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YsDivers OP t1_j1w9d9k wrote

Also the Apple DAC dongle compared to Macbook m1 DAC is so much better it's kinda crazy

The bass has so much more clarity on my HD58x and even my Chus

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goldfish_memories t1_j1wp2e8 wrote

Aside from the fact that most modern well engineered DACs are audibly transparent, there's also the fact that you're comparing 2 DACs by the same company. FYI, the m1 macbooks are almost as well messing as the apple dongle.

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Western_Judgment_945 t1_j1zy28p wrote

Can’t wait for the guy to arrive on this thread that insists that his atom is sufficient headroom for the HE-6.

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