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Mitchs_Frog_Smacky t1_j6wysx2 wrote

Reply to comment by ClaustroPhoebia in Discovery of embalming workshop reveals how ancient Egyptians mummified the dead by Magister_Xehanort

I've heard that the recent discovery of trace tobacco and cocaine in the systems of mummies put into question how large and global trade routes actually were. However due to this discovery, it seems to upend a large amount of current 'accepted' history on trade routes and is being dismissed as a fluke, even though multiple labs agree on the results.

Do you have any information or thoughts on this?

(Two links related to the subject found from Internet search to back my question. Originally heard of this debate on a multi-movie doc on Egypt)

http://faculty.ucr.edu/~legneref/ethnic/mummy.htm

https://worldhistory.us/ancient-history/ancient-egypt/cocaine-mummies.php

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pineguy64 t1_j6yewxm wrote

>I've heard that the recent discovery of trace tobacco and cocaine in the systems of mummies put into question how large and global trade routes actually were. However due to this discovery, it seems to upend a large amount of current 'accepted' history on trade routes and is being dismissed as a fluke, even though multiple labs agree on the results.

>Do you have any information or thoughts on this?

>(Two links related to the subject found from Internet search to back my question. Originally heard of this debate on a multi-movie doc on Egypt)

>http://faculty.ucr.edu/~legneref/ethnic/mummy.htm

>https://worldhistory.us/ancient-history/ancient-egypt/cocaine-mummies.php

This is so unbelievable it's almost funny. Tobacco comes from the Americas and wasn't brought to the "Old World" until 1559 for King Phillip II of Spain. Which one is more likely here, that the results of these tests are an error or that the entire history of tobacco as we know it is wrong, as well as hundreds of years of recorded history of trade?

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ClaustroPhoebia t1_j71b1ph wrote

OP is basically following on from Balabanova. So I’m actually not sure about this from what I’ve done so far but I did my due diligence and hunted down some bibliography on Balananova’s claims as well as the articles he referenced.

Basically, Balabanova tried toxicology on several unprovenanced mummies from a German museum and found traces indicating cocaine and nicotine (not tobacco) in their system.

I specify this because there are several plants in West Africa that contain nicotine without requiring tobacco. The real question is: cocaine. Now the evidence here is already really dodgy: toxicology on mummies of an uncertain origin, even if they are real mummies, is incredibly dodgy.

Not to mention there being no evidence of either plant anywhere else in the record, the fact that no other mummies have revealed either nicotine or cocaine in the same way. Even Balabanova didn’t suggest that the Egyptians were trading with the Americas, rather than there were (not extinct) varieties of the two plants in Africa at the time of the pharaohs.

The question I have is what about the rest of the stuff? Egypt is great because the dry conditions mean that a lot survives and people put all sorts of stuff, including high value imports, in tombs. So my question is: if the Egyptians did have trade contacts with the Americas, where’s the rest of the stuff?

What about cacao beans or maize? I mean rice and spices and herbs survive from Egypt, so why are there no other indications of this trade?

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