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Trash_Panda_Leaves t1_ja4ofy8 wrote

It says Ningrisu is specifically springtime thunder- is there anyone who has and sources or more detail on that? Why spring specifically- was there other thunder gods for different seasons?

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darwinfish86 t1_ja5uohh wrote

In Sumerian mythology Ningursu's father was the storm god Enlil, so that is likely the connection. That said many of these deities shifted names and roles over the two thousand years or so that they were actively worshipped, and often took on different meanings in different places at different times.

The gods had a lot of overlap in responsibilities; it was not at all like a Dungeons & Dragons pantheon where every deity had a set and specific set of duties and powers. Gods could be as broad and seemingly universal as Enlil (god of storms) or Inanna (goddess of love and war), or they could have very narrow associations, like Enbilulu, god of irrigation. Some gods were servants or family members of other gods, like Ninshubur, Inanna's personal servant/vizier.

Some gods lost their original identity and became syncretized with another deity, like Asaruludu, who was originally the city of Kuara's patron deity but later became merely one of the fifty names of Marduk, patron god of the city of Babylon.

The religion of Sumeria and Mesopotamia is fascinating and deep. I just got interested in it myself when I started building a D&D campaign set in the ancient bronze age. I went down that rabbit hole and still haven't crawled out of it.

Ancient polytheistic religions didn't really work the way movies, pop culture, video games, and fantasy has keyed us to understand them. For a really in-depth overview of how ancient polytheism worked I'd highly recommend A Collection of Unmitigated Pedantry: Practical Polytheism, a blog by a professional historian.

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seansy5000 t1_ja6juy9 wrote

Has to be one of the best titles for a blog I’ve ever seen.

Edit: changed book to blog

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ibetthisistaken5190 t1_ja6tdry wrote

> titles for a book

In the spirit of unmitigated pedantry, I feel I should tell you it’s a blog.

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seansy5000 t1_ja7i0zx wrote

Dear lord, of course. Thanks for the heads up!

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I_am_oneiros t1_ja7lwo2 wrote

The blog is incredible. It lines up very neatly with the Hindu religious experience.

For example, you have old Gods (devas e.g. Indra who are the primary Gods in the Rigveda), the all powerful Gods (e.g. Vishnu who form the primary pantheon today), local Gods (e.g. specific to one village), situational Gods (e.g. for spring harvest), and deified humans e.g. Rama. The Brahmins are the priestly caste and Hinduism is heavy on rituals.

This in a living breathing religion which varies from place to place is quite a fascinating thing.

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monsantobreath t1_ja506qj wrote

Pure amateur musings here.

Perhaps because thunder in spring means heavy nourishing rainfall. Thunder in fall is less nice?

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r-reading-my-comment t1_ja5asaw wrote

Wasn’t Iraq’s seasonal rainfall dangerous and likely to cause floods? The floods brought nourishment, but also death and destruction.

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Yadobler t1_ja64pn7 wrote

If iraq was like the Asian monsoon countries, then it's the late summer / autumn rains that cause flooding. Springtime tends to be dry and rainfall is appreciated in the spring where it's getting hot

#---------

In southern India, tamil agricultural culture have the following warning: never get married in the month of Aadi

Aadi is about mid July - mid August. Because usually newly weds will consummate on the first night, and a baby comes in end April.

End April is considered the driest weeks. It's spring, not summer, but it's not Monsoon season. Unlike the summer months where rain comes and you have a generally hot and wet season, springtime is dry and having a baby means being tight on well water - bad for the newborn and the new mother.

#---------

Crops that tamil farmers grow, usually rice and sorghum, are usually planted in August (the same Aadi month, also why they say not to marry in Aadi because everyone's busy planting crops). The Monsoon comes and the floodplains are great for the crops that bathe in water. Then they are harvested in January, it's also when Thai pongal is celebrated to thank the weather gods and plowing bulls for the good harvest

#----------

So if an agricultural civilisation living in a place that sees no snow is praying for springtime rainfall, it's probably 2 things:

  1. they need the water for crops that they can't plant after spring

  2. they need the water because all the wells dried up

#---------

This is my educated guess from inductive reasoning of agricultural culture. Take it with a pinch of salt

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TheMelm t1_ja694n7 wrote

Heh you forget how differently people experience something like spring. In Alberta spring is when all the snow starts melting so you get tons of water coming in from the mountains along with rain and everything turns into a swamp. We call it spring breakup when the roads get too muddy and you can't move oil rigs and machinery for a few weeks so work stops.

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nonosnoooo t1_ja7kjqe wrote

You missed the part where they said if a bunch of people who never see snow are praying for springtime rainfall - Iraq and southern India don’t get break up lol

Break up is not just about the snow melting in some places, it’s also the frost coming out of the ground

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TheMelm t1_ja7la0x wrote

Nah I saw they knew about it the you who was forgetting wasn't them it was a general everyone. And if you really made me think about it I'm sure I'd have figured out places without snow have very different springs just not something you think about often. And yeah I know, lots of sites are winter access only for that reason they're basically a swamp when its above freezing.

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Nonskew2 t1_ja6mquk wrote

Yes, spring. Before extensive irrigation the rivers would flood and bring nourishing silt, somewhat like the Nile in Egypt but with destructive flooding. I should not just say the rainy season but when warming melting snow in mountains to the north.

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Oak_Woman t1_ja5ur6d wrote

I swear I've read somewhere that certain cultures didn't sow seeds before the first thunderstorm of the year. Or maybe it was from a gardening group I'm a part of? Either way, that might be your answer. Thunderstorms indicate warm air and a season change, meaning it's finally safe to plant.

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Trash_Panda_Leaves t1_ja5weuf wrote

Ooh if that's true that makes a lot of sense. I've never really seen any discourse about this so that's why I asked. Do you know if there was anywhere specific you may have found that information?

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Yadobler t1_ja65ibj wrote

I don't know about these folks but for tamil folks, traditionally the end of July is when they start sowing rice and other crops, before the autumn Monsoon. Then they harvest in January (they don't experience snow in winter, just strong winds)

Springtime was also the driest months, so much so that folks don't marry and consummate in July-August so that they don't give birth at late April where it's hot enough to dry up wells, but not the season for rain clouds and thunderstorms

#-------

So I'd assume if they were praying for springtime rain, it was because of the dry weather, or they needed to plant crops and couldn't wait till late summer.

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I-do-the-art t1_ja6tcm3 wrote

My guess would be that it’s because thunderstorms are more common / violent during spring in a lot of areas.

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