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Bkwrzdub t1_jbqg2bq wrote

Different empires had colourings that were regionally distinct.

When British Royalty were using purple as a regal colour, their explorers had come to meet first Nations people and discovered that we had used purple as a distinct colour as well!

We had used purple colourings in our wampum which came from quohog shells to make the beads.

(it escapes me at the moment about how else, and where else first nations had used purple)

This was a great article!

Thank you!

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LimerickJim t1_jbqhu90 wrote

Well all of European royalty used purple because the Roman Emperors did for the reasons you outlined

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wolfie379 t1_jbre55e wrote

In Europe, purple was reserved for royalty because it was extremely rare, being extracted from the Dye Murex. Two cultures where royal purple was obtained from a kind of snail.

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IBAZERKERI t1_jbreok1 wrote

and it took something like 10-30 thousand shells to make like an ounce of dye

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DLottchula t1_jbs0a7k wrote

Couldn’t they just mix red and blue?

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EatFrozenPeas t1_jbs1edk wrote

Brilliant red wasn't accessible until the Colombian exchange. It comes predominantly from cochineal beetles, even to this day. (Red 40, anyone?). Blue existed, but mixing what they had access to would create a muddy, brown- or gray-hued purple instead of the brilliant hue of true royal purple.

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Oregonoutback t1_jbsor1k wrote

Fun fact... Starbucks strawberry Frappuccino uses a food dye made from those beetles.

Hakuna matata!

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EatFrozenPeas t1_jbs1hu0 wrote

Brilliant red wasn't accessible until the Colombian exchange. It comes predominantly from cochineal beetles, even to this day. (Red 40, anyone?). Blue existed in some forms, but the accessible inexpensive ones were not very bright either. They were typically plant-derived. Mixing what they had access to would create a muddy, brown- or gray-hued purple instead of the brilliant hue of true royal purple.

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DLottchula t1_jbte7u5 wrote

Thanks for the info. I didn’t think about what the colors were made of would effect how they mix

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Intranetusa t1_jbrzrkg wrote

Yep. In East Asia in contrast, purple was not a royal color probably because it was not as rare. Beginning in the Zhou Dynasty, the kingdoms of the region had learned to produce synthetic purple & synthetic blue called "Han purple" and "Han blue" through a combination of mixing and/or melting different ores together. The Qin Terra Cotta soldiers had their some parts of their armor painted with some purple and blue colors. By the time the synthetic dyes were no longer as common, the culture(s) at that point had already associated other colors with royalty.

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BootyWhiteMan t1_jbrfdof wrote

Why didn’t they just mix red and blue to make purple?

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wolfie379 t1_jbrfve8 wrote

Blue was also a tough one. Most common blue dye was indigo/woad (same pigment produced by two different plants), which due to its nature needed to be applied in a different manner from other dyes. Ultramarine blue existed for painting, but it was expensive (pigment made from crushed semiprecious stone). It wasn’t until the Industrial Revolution when chemists started working with coal tar (byproduct of the local gasworks) that a cheap, stable blue dye (Prussian blue) became available.

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mangalore-x_x t1_jc04dl4 wrote

It is important that it was royal purple that was reserved. By the High Middle Ages at latest they knew how to mix other purple dyes, they just weren't made from such exotic ingredients and had a different tone so you could tell it was a different dye.

Same for royal red colors. There were other reds, but the price of the dye was part of the bragging rights.

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Wrkncacnter112 t1_jbsq9jo wrote

The Ikoot people of Oaxaca, Mexico use purple dye from snails, just like the Romans did.

Edit: And, to clarify, they were doing so long before Europeans arrived in the Americas.

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Substantial-Can9805 t1_jbr492k wrote

Do they use pee too or did they have a less stinky method?

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Bkwrzdub t1_jbr4olm wrote

We had plants available in the region that would be foreign to Europe that were suitable as an organic dye.

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RanOutofCookies t1_jbrzsxq wrote

Apparently all the expensive dyes (blue, purple) were extremely stinky, even years after washing the fabrics.

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War_Hymn t1_jbsag6y wrote

Yep, they mixed the crushed snails with urine to make the dye. The urine (or the ammonia in it) acted as a mordant to fix or bind the dye to the fabric, so all that expensive purple dye won't get leached out when you washed it.

Needless to say, you probably won't want to live near a dye works back in those days.

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